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Thread: Clearvue CV1800 Noise Reduction Enclosure

  1. #1
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    Clearvue CV1800 Noise Reduction Enclosure

    My inner millennial is going to show here a bit. I am starting this post to catalog my enclosure building process. I know there have been other post, but I wanted to have my thoughts/process in one spot where I could also get feedback from the community. I have done a lot of searching on the web, and while there is a decent amount of information available it is scattered about and a lot of it is old. So I figured I would gather my resources in one spot for those who might follow in my footsteps. Moderators, if there is a better spot for this post I apologize.

    I've done a lot of research on the CV1800. The one aspect of the cyclone that I took a bit of a gamble on is the noise levels. I live in a subdivision, granted our lots are a little bit bigger than the average neighborhood so I have that going for me. The most effective form of noise dampening is distance thanks to waves propagating via 1/x2. There's about 30-40 feet and a wall between where the DC will be and the neighbors living room. My shop-vac is 85'sh decibels and it hasn't caused any problems so I'm hoping i'm blowing this out of proportion.

    We aren't planning on living in this place long term, we are currently saving to move out in the country but that's at least 4-5 years out and I'm not willing to put my woodworking adventures on hold. So I am going to make a portable enclosure, because I don't want to build a random closet in my garage that I will have to take down when we leave.

    I'm not worried that much about noise coming into the house. My garage is on the opposite side of the house from the living room and bedrooms. My wife can't hear any of my current equipment running while she's watching TV and my table saw and miter saw are pretty loud.

    So step 1: Brainstorming...

    I purchased the CV1800 RH Bundle, with their 30 gallon drum. (101 inch height) I have 9 foot ceilings. While my space is a little small, i'm not super worried about minimizing the footprint. I have almost an entire 15 foot wall at my disposal.

    I plan on building the frame and testing the cyclone to see if the noise is acceptable and then go from there since most of this acoustic dampening material is $$$$$


    • It will be a freestanding enclosure, built of 2'x4'x105" studs. (The biggest I can fit in my vehicle)
      • I wanted to isolate the noise from the structure of the house.
      • Make the unit "portable" for when we eventually move.

    • I'm thinking OSB on the inside and outside of the frame as "skin" and to reinforce the structure.
      • I've read that OSB/chip board has superior noise dampening ability to plywood.

    • Rockwool/Roxul batting in between the skin layers.
    • Soundboard of some type applied to the inner skin layer with green glue.
    • Isolate the impeller/cone and transition in a sound proof box. Leave the motor free to open air at the top of the enclosure.
    • Acoustic caulking on joints inside the isolation.
    • Shaped "egg crate" foam attached to the ceiling and wall above and behind the enclosure.
      • Sound absorbing material to dampen echoing

    • Hinged portion of the outer wall to allow the drum to be emptied.
    • I'm not sure how to handle the filter assembly yet.



    No battle plan ever survives first contact. So i'll update periodically as I go!
    Last edited by PHILIP MACHIN; 02-08-2020 at 9:32 AM.

  2. #2
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    A major consideration is the return path for the air back to the shop (at a rate of 1000 cfm), presuming you are not exhausting it outside. What are your plans there?
    NOW you tell me...

  3. #3
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    My cyclone/compressor closet was designed specifically to reduce noise. The exterior is covered with a layer of homasote under a layer of drywall. I used normal 2x4 studs for the walls; some folks do a staggered wall setup with a gap. I have unfaced fiberglass insulation between the studs and the interior of the closet is faced with 1/4" hardboard pegboard with the rough surface facing the room. My air return is a "bent horn" arrangement up between the ceiling joists and is sized to be in excess of the volume of my cyclone's output. I used an insulated steel door for access to the small 4'x8' room. The level of sound deadening is really good...there's a low level rumble in the room from physical sound transmission through the structure, but otherwise the noise level is remarkably low. Here's a drawing of the wall and bent-return that I used for my setup:



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    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post
    A major consideration is the return path for the air back to the shop (at a rate of 1000 cfm), presuming you are not exhausting it outside. What are your plans there?
    I hadn’t planned on making an air tight filter enclosure, so it’ll be drawing air from the same space it’s exhausting to. Plus, I’m in a garage and I can crack the door a couple inches if it proves to be an issue.

    I really just want to knock it down about 10 decibels to the 80’s range. I bought a really cheap Decibel meter and measured my current shop vac at 92 Decibels. So as long as it's quieter than that I'm happy.
    Last edited by PHILIP MACHIN; 02-08-2020 at 11:19 AM.

  5. #5
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    If you put your filter outside of the closet, you're not going to get the same benefit noise-wise than you would with it in the sound conditioned space with a non-linear return path of adequate size. A lot of sound is going to emanate from that filter
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHILIP MACHIN View Post
    I hadn’t planned on making an air tight filter enclosure, so it’ll be drawing air from the same space it’s exhausting to. Plus, I’m in a garage and I can crack the door a couple inches if it proves to be an issue.

    I really just want to knock it down about 10 decibels to the 80’s range. I bought a really cheap Decibel meter and measured my current shop vac at 92 Decibels. So as long as it's quieter than that I'm happy.
    I put my ClearVue in a closet, 4'x8' to house it and a 5hp air compressor which is also loud. The DC barely fits with 9' ceilings with a 30 gal galvanized trash can for a bin. It's quiet enough outside the closet to talk to hear someone whisper. Without the enclosure the DC sound is deafening. Apparently much of the sound comes from the exhaust so some people insulate that separately.

    You might consider using a staggered stud wall construction - this isolates the inner wall sheathing from the outer wall so sound can't be transmitted though the studs. I use 2x6 plates on the floor and staggered 2x4 studs. Insulation is woven between the studs.

    staggered_studs_IMG_2013071.jpg

    I enclosed the cyclone (plus the big air compressor) completely, floor to ceiling, including the motors and DC filter. I've monitored the temperature of the motor and it's not an issue. After the filter stack, I return the air to the shop through a baffled plywood duct I built in between the roof trusses. I sprayed a coat of rubber compound to the inside surfaces of the return duct. I detect no noise through the return air grating. Better to have too much cross-sectional area on the return duct than too little. My construction sketch of the return air duct:

    Dust_collector_baffle_small.jpg

    How will you access the inside for inspection and maintenance? For access I used double steel doors, insulated. I built the closet between the main shop and a separate large room on the end of the shop so the doors open into that area and any sound that comes through the doors is on the other side from the main shop.

    JKJ

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I put my ClearVue in a closet, 4'x8' to house it and a 5hp air compressor which is also loud. The DC barely fits with 9' ceilings with a 30 gal galvanized trash can for a bin. It's quiet enough outside the closet to talk to hear someone whisper. Without the enclosure the DC sound is deafening. Apparently much of the sound comes from the exhaust so some people insulate that separately.

    You might consider using a staggered stud wall construction - this isolates the inner wall sheathing from the outer wall so sound can't be transmitted though the studs. I use 2x6 plates on the floor and staggered 2x4 studs. Insulation is woven between the studs.

    staggered_studs_IMG_2013071.jpg

    I enclosed the cyclone (plus the big air compressor) completely, floor to ceiling, including the motors and DC filter. I've monitored the temperature of the motor and it's not an issue. After the filter stack, I return the air to the shop through a baffled plywood duct I built in between the roof trusses. I sprayed a coat of rubber compound to the inside surfaces of the return duct. I detect no noise through the return air grating. Better to have too much cross-sectional area on the return duct than too little. My construction sketch of the return air duct:

    Dust_collector_baffle_small.jpg

    How will you access the inside for inspection and maintenance? For access I used double steel doors, insulated. I built the closet between the main shop and a separate large room on the end of the shop so the doors open into that area and any sound that comes through the doors is on the other side from the main shop.

    JKJ
    I am hesitant to build a full on closet. For one, my garage is completely drywalled and finished, and I'm not sure what the implications would be in terms of building code and the like. I also plan on moving in 4 or 5 years and I don't think having a 32 sq ft section of the garage closed off would be a selling point. I guess I could do a 4 wall "island" of a room adjacent to the wall.

    You bring up lots of good ideas and points, and it's making me realize that my Clearvue might be sitting in the box disassembled until I really come up with a solid plan.

    I just dragged my daughter out to the garage to help me measure. My ceilings are 113 inches high. (Random?) So I have some room to play with.

    I could basically build a big box with baffling for exhaust return using floor boards and your staggered stud framing and just avoid mounting it to the walls or the ceiling. At that point I could use a standard sized door to access it for maintenance and emptying the barrel as well. I wonder how stable something like that would be, especially since most of the weight will be on one wall of the structure.

    John, how much of that 8x4 ft do you think is actually used by the DC? I don't need to put my compressor in it. The assembly instructions say the unit is 52" wide stock. I imagine I will need another foor or two for the exhaust baffling. So I could probably get away with 4 x 6 or so?

    Thanks for helping me brainstorm!
    Last edited by PHILIP MACHIN; 02-08-2020 at 3:47 PM. Reason: Because I'm insane and keep thinking of more questions to ask.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHILIP MACHIN View Post
    ...I could basically build a big box with baffling for exhaust return using floor boards and your staggered stud framing and just avoid mounting it to the walls or the ceiling. At that point I could use a standard sized door to access it for maintenance and emptying the barrel as well. I wonder how stable something like that would be, especially since most of the weight will be on one wall of the structure.

    John, how much of that 8x4 ft do you think is actually used by the DC? I don't need to put my compressor in it. The assembly instructions say the unit is 52" wide stock. I imagine I will need another foor or two for the exhaust baffling. So I could probably get away with 4 x 6 or so?

    I've seen designs where people built a free-standing stand to support the entire cyclone, motor, filters, everything. These could apparently be set out in the middle of the shop so they must have been plenty stable. Perhaps a stand could support the system for installation and testing then the enclosure built later. A steel stand might be smaller than one made from wood.

    It seems a sound-dampening enclosure with a sound-insulated roof could be built around such a stand, perhaps not even attached. Maybe the walls could be connected at the corners with lag screws for future disassembly. Perhaps one wall or a door-high section of one wall could be hinged to allow access. The top could be attached in some way to the room ceiling for more stability if needed.

    I built my closet with 1/2" plywood inside and out but a lighter-weight material should work as well. Perhaps the walls could be made with 2x3 studs (ripped 2x6's instead of 2x4) for a little less weight. The walls might rest on heavy rubber or foam rubber.

    Building the system from two independent modules, stand and enclosure, could make it easier to disassemble and transport at moving time.

    The exhaust duct cross-section could be any shape as long as the area was sufficient. I made part of mine as a nearly square box, part like a flat box, and part shaped to fit between the trusses. I figured the area of the input duct and made the area of the exhaust the same plus a generous percentage for loss of efficiency for the baffling and abrupt changes of direction. (I'd have to check my plans to see what factor I used.) If the filter plenum were rotated to put the filter stack towards one wall it might free up enough space in the enclosure for some creative duct folding - anything that changes direction a time or two will reduce sound through the duct compared to a straight shot. Have to calculate and design but perhaps a folded duct would fit in easily in the 2x6' footprint. I installed mine so the filters were near one wall and the cyclone close to another had plenty of room in the corner for a generous vertical exhaust duct.

    JKJ

  9. #9
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    The "closet" doesn't have to be a permanent structure that has to stay there when it's time to move. It's not going to carry weight, most likely, so screws into existing wall and ceiling and a little caulk/adhesive at the bottom makes it easy to remove later. You can even construct it in free standing panels that you can bolt together so it's even movable to a new property.
    --

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I've seen designs where people built a free-standing stand to support the entire cyclone, motor, filters, everything. These could apparently be set out in the middle of the shop so they must have been plenty stable. Perhaps a stand could support the system for installation and testing then the enclosure built later. A steel stand might be smaller than one made from wood.

    It seems a sound-dampening enclosure with a sound-insulated roof could be built around such a stand, perhaps not even attached. Maybe the walls could be connected at the corners with lag screws for future disassembly. Perhaps one wall or a door-high section of one wall could be hinged to allow access. The top could be attached in some way to the room ceiling for more stability if needed.

    I built my closet with 1/2" plywood inside and out but a lighter-weight material should work as well. Perhaps the walls could be made with 2x3 studs (ripped 2x6's instead of 2x4) for a little less weight. The walls might rest on heavy rubber or foam rubber.

    Building the system from two independent modules, stand and enclosure, could make it easier to disassemble and transport at moving time.

    The exhaust duct cross-section could be any shape as long as the area was sufficient. I made part of mine as a nearly square box, part like a flat box, and part shaped to fit between the trusses. I figured the area of the input duct and made the area of the exhaust the same plus a generous percentage for loss of efficiency for the baffling and abrupt changes of direction. (I'd have to check my plans to see what factor I used.) If the filter plenum were rotated to put the filter stack towards one wall it might free up enough space in the enclosure for some creative duct folding - anything that changes direction a time or two will reduce sound through the duct compared to a straight shot. Have to calculate and design but perhaps a folded duct would fit in easily in the 2x6' footprint. I installed mine so the filters were near one wall and the cyclone close to another had plenty of room in the corner for a generous vertical exhaust duct.

    JKJ
    sketch.jpg


    Super crude, just sketching in MS paint. You would think in a house with little kids I would have a ton of art supplies, but I couldn't find a ruler or grid paper to save my life.

    Were you suggesting longer ducting to the filter? Or do you think simply forcing the exhaust through the treacherous path (Like above) is enough to abate some of the noise. I think 6 x 3 would probably work. I think it needs a little bit of width for stability, but like you said I could anchor it to the ceiling if needed. I like the idea of it being modular, but as long as its shorter than 105" Mr Pythagoras says I could ultimately just tip the thing over and haul it on a truck .

    Like you said, I could build a stand of sorts to fire the thing up and see what noise levels are actually at. It could end up not being a problem anyway, especially since I already wear hearing protection. My neighbors currently tolerate my shop-vac screaming away at 92 dB, but i'm sure the frequency profile would be lower on the DC and probably travel further. Having the stand inside the compartment would also provide further isolation from vibration transfer.

    Other scattered thoughts:

    The enclosure will probably be at a slightly positive pressure, so I think having a small vent at the top of the motor could allow some airflow for cooling, but that would probably cost me some sound reduction. You said it wasn't an issue though, I'd have to monitor that as I go I suppose.

    I think I would probably go with OSB for the skin, from what I understand it does a better job than plywood of abating noise with the random changes of direction in its structure. I'm fortunate enough that one of my good friends designs speakers for a living and he's been giving me some suggestions too.

    I think the 6 x 3 x 101'sh inch footprint would allow me sufficient room to frame out a real door... I could even get super fancy with it and inject it with foam. I guess I should avoid spending more money on this enclosure than I did on the DC.

    Unfortunately, I can't really get started with the building until after the 14th. I'm waiting for the local recycling company to come get my old deep freezer that's currently occupying the space my DC will go in. So lots of time for planning, especially since I don't work again until the 15th. (Gotta love Dupont shift schedule).

    Thanks for your help John!

    And @Jim Becker, I think that's the direction I'm going to head now. A plan is coming together slowly. Another annoying feature my garage has in addition to my random 113" ceilings, is my builder has this dumb 6 inch concrete lip around the entire garage. So I have a hard time building anything into the wall. I don't think I could even mount the CV directly to the wall of the garage without serious modification.
    Last edited by PHILIP MACHIN; 02-08-2020 at 5:38 PM. Reason: Saw Jims comment

  11. #11
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    There are only two things that are super important regarding your air return to the shop from the DC closet:

    1) It needs to be an indirect path...at least one directional change should be there, but more is great. This eliminates direct sound transmission between the two rooms
    2) It need to be at least as much area as the outlet from your cyclone, but preferably a little more so there is no back pressure including restriction from the bends mentioned in point number one

    If you do that, you'll have great air return and maximum noise reduction. John used really big flexible duct for his. I used the "bent horn" idea. Anything similar or along the same theory will work. BTW, I did extend the outlet of my cyclone to the filter simply to place the filter so it didn't block my electric panel which is in the same space. No harm in doing that.
    --

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  12. #12
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    Were you suggesting longer ducting to the filter? ...
    No, I left my filters in the closet connected as per the instructions and provided hardware. This simplified things since it kept everything together, I didn't have to design fabricate anything special, and I didn't have to find room in the shop for the filter stack. I have no idea how much noise would come through the filters if the unfiltered air was first directed through a even a baffled direct duct.

    The plywood duct I built simply accepts the filtered air in the closet and lets it go back into the shop. There will be a positive pressure in the closet which will push the filtered air out the closet and back into the room. My filtered air pickup is fairly low in the room. The total filtered exhaust duct path is probably close to 20'.

    I have my filters rotated around so they are very close to the inlet duct. I think the installation is can be more compact that way, or at least it fit better for my space.

    I don't think it will need a vent over the motor. I suspect breaking the seal on the closet will let noise escape as well as air. For cooling the motor some people put the inlet to the exhaust duct up high in the closet near the motor with the theory that more air will move around the motor and help cool it. I sometimes run mine for hours at a time and the motor temperature is fine. I think the convection currents in the closet and the air movement from the filters are enough. BTW, to prevent overheating there are warnings to limit the number of times per hour you turn on a motor like this - I think the recommended maximum is 6 times/hour. I tend to leave mine on unless I'm stepping away from it for an extended time. (Without the sound insulation I think I'd turn it off more!) And heed the dire warnings in the manual to not test the system without inlet ducts connected! I understand that's a good way to burn up the motor.

    Some people have ducted the filtered air down through open areas between studs in a wall, but seems that would reduce the sound insulation.

    Some people vent directly outside and don't use filters. It's stated that much of the noise comes from the exhaust side of the motor so some have reported success in lowering noise by adding a muffler (insulator) to an extended exhaust. But I don't know how that compares to sound insulating the entire cyclone, both inside and outside the shop. The ClearVue forum used to have a lot of information about sound reduction but I haven't looked at it for years.

    Make sure you have adequate clearance to lift the bin lid for inspection and removal and manhandle it out of the enclosure. I open the double doors for that. The thing filters SO well that for what I use it for, sawdust from the bandsaw, belt/disk sander, drum sander, and lathe, almost everything goes into and packs tightly in the bin, even talcum-fine sawdust powder. This makes my 30 gal bin very heavy when full! Shavings from a jointer or planer would be an entirely different story.

    One thing you NEVER want to do is let the bin fill up. People say this will instantly load up your filters with sawdust and make a huge mess. This is another reason to have easy access to the bin to inspect it often and know when to empty it before it's too late. Another option is to buy the McRabbet bin-full sensor, cutoff, and alarm (assuming they still sell it). Or make one.

    I'm sure lots of others have good ideas about this. I'm certainly no expert - the only experience I have is with the one I installed. I did do a lot of research first and had the huge advantage of designing and building the shop from the ground up so it was easier to design things like the dust collection and wiring and build to suit rather than retrofit. In case you are interested, this is my basic floor plan.

    shop_floorplan.jpg

    I use part of the back room (maintenance area) now for air drying turning and storing blanks and to incubate and raise baby guineas and peacocks. Sort of a multi-purpose farm/shop building! I built it near the barn so I can keep an eye on the llamas and such.

    My primary shop use is woodturning so I keep two lathes in the turning area. What I really enjoy is teaching woodturning!

    shop_floorplan_lathe_space2.jpg WVR_IMG_5458.jpg

    JKJ

  13. #13
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    Today is phase 1. I have collected all the required materials and now I am going to start putting my CV1800 together inside a wooden frame.

    I ended up finding a local plumbing supply store that had 6 inch ASTM 2729 thin walled sewer and drain PVC pipe and all the fittings. If anyone in Southeast Michigan needs this information shoot me a message.

    I ordered one of the 6 inch to dual 4 inch w/blast gate fittings from Clearvue but it's on backorder and won't be here for a week or 2. No big deal though, I can patch straight in with the 6 inch hose until then

    Also, that 6 inch pipe makes my garage feel even smaller.

    IMG-0994.jpg
    Last edited by PHILIP MACHIN; 02-18-2020 at 11:51 AM.

  14. #14
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    I got the frame built, she's all wired in and I ran her for the first time today.

    She screams, and man does she move some air.

    I also did the leak check with incense and didn't see any issues, so that's good. I am worried the impeller might be a little bit out of balance though, it makes a rubbing/squeaking when it's spinning down and I see a tad bit of wobble.

    That being said, I can barely hear it running from the Living room and at the end of the street with the garage closed I'm getting 65'sh decibels. Which really isn't that bad, no more annoying than the guys down the street working on their hotrods all day.

    I used a Decibel meter app on my Iphone XS with a Bluetooth microphone. Before everyone yells at me, this is a purely QUALITATIVE check :-)

    I included a shot of my shopvac as a reference point.

    I am definitely going to work on sound deadening once the moneybags refill. Between buying the dust collector and my planer/jointer my wife won't let me buy anything for a while haha. My Goal is to get it below 90dB, I feel like that is fairly realistic.


    IMG-1029.JPG

    IMG-1030.JPG
    Last edited by PHILIP MACHIN; 02-24-2020 at 11:02 AM.

  15. #15
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    **One more quick update**

    When I finished running the ducting and sealing everything up it dropped to 85 dB. I don't even think I'm going to bother with the enclosure.

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