Did you get a flu shot?

[Edwin Santos]

Pretty much anything you hear/read from immunologists state plainly that the year the flu breaks left when they thought it was going to break right all heck is going to break loose which is why the world is so concerned about the corona virus. All the flu vaccine is is an educated guess as to which direction the virus is going to go in its next evolution. Its no different than a batter trying to anticipate what pitch the pitcher is about to throw. The only bonus for the batter is they have their reaction time from the release to the plate to attempt to adjust. There is zero allowance for a reaction to a left turn when the vaccine was manufactured months ahead for a right turn.

There was just an episode on Science Friday regarding much of this as it pertains to the Corona virus. Some scary statements in there like lead people in the industry are pretty much clear that the entire world is going to be in the state of China with regards to caution/quarrantine in 6-12 months with zero potential for a vaccine in the remote future and a virus that is 20 times more lethal than influenza.

https://www.sciencefriday.com/segmen...irus-outbreak/

I'd like to think the flu vaccine researchers are a little better than the pitcher/batter scenario, but I can accept that it is a moving target so there's no guarantee that the formulation will hit the bull's eye. Either way, if someone genuinely feels flu vaccine is detrimental to them, they can always decline. I have heard many doubts about effectiveness, but I haven't heard very many allegations of flu vaccine actually causing harm. It was always my impression that it was either effective or ineffective, but no detriment or downside as such.
I will say this, I used to work in hospital administration and every employee and doctor on staff got flu vaccine. So if it were detrimental, or some type of scam, our doctors weren't in on it because they were lined up with everyone else to receive it.

Thank you for the link. I'll have to listen to the Science Friday segment. The thing that comes to mind is that there is always a market for apocalyptic predictions. I remember plenty of them when SARS broke, and also when the H1N1 outbreak happened. Somehow the world kept turning.
There are plenty of movies about virus pandemics, bio terrorism and the like. It's always suspicious to me when anyone talks with certainty like "zero potential for a vaccine in the remote future". How could anyone credibly say such a thing?

Edwin

[Edwin Santos]

If you could choose, is there another time in human history you'd prefer to be living in? (With respect to living a healthier life)

I think the answer any sane person would give is a resounding "No". It was less than 100 years ago that diabetics were wasting into a terrible death because we didn't even understand that they needed insulin (or how to get/make/administer/dose it...). Less than 200 years ago, surgery was performed without anesthesia (as we had yet to discover/harness it).

Of course the only rational answer could be a resounding "No". I'll always concede that health care as an industry has lots of dysfunction and ugly warts.
But just consider this one statistic relative to only one disease: Polio. In 1977 there were about 250,000 people in the US suffering from some degree of paralysis from Polio. Due the the development of Polio vaccine, in 1994 the US was declared Polio free. That's an amazing stride in a very short period of time. And in 2011 I think India was declared Polio free.

Incidentally, the Gates Foundation has made one of its projects, the goal of a Polio free globe and it's looking like they have a decent chance of making it happen.
Off topic, but I think that's a great story. A entrepreneur becomes a multi-billionaire and then uses his wealth to eradicate Polio from the world, saving countless lives. I'm rooting for them.

Edwin

[Jerome Stanek]

I wonder if the flu shot is like the shingles shot a couple years ago that they said was Oh so great when in fact it was discovered that you had the same chance of getting shingles with or without the shot. 10000 tested with the vax and 10000 tested without and there was no difference in cases

[Dan Friedrichs]

I wonder if the flu shot is like the shingles shot a couple years ago that they said was Oh so great when in fact it was discovered that you had the same chance of getting shingles with or without the shot. 10000 tested with the vax and 10000 tested without and there was no difference in cases

No. There is clear evidence that the flu vaccine is effective.

[Josko Catipovic]

I think flu shots are more about Big Pharma profits than about helping folks stay healthy.

[Lisa Starr]

Yes. I've gotten one for years and years. After my Stem Cell Transplant, I was advised to get the "Senior" version, though I was 57 at the time. Something about my immune system being less robust than prior.

[Mark Bolton]

I'd like to think the flu vaccine researchers are a little better than the pitcher/batter scenario, but I can accept that it is a moving target so there's no guarantee that the formulation will hit the bull's eye. Either way, if someone genuinely feels flu vaccine is detrimental to them, they can always decline. I have heard many doubts about effectiveness, but I haven't heard very many allegations of flu vaccine actually causing harm. It was always my impression that it was either effective or ineffective, but no detriment or downside as such.
I will say this, I used to work in hospital administration and every employee and doctor on staff got flu vaccine. So if it were detrimental, or some type of scam, our doctors weren't in on it because they were lined up with everyone else to receive it.

Thank you for the link. I'll have to listen to the Science Friday segment. The thing that comes to mind is that there is always a market for apocalyptic predictions. I remember plenty of them when SARS broke, and also when the H1N1 outbreak happened. Somehow the world kept turning.
There are plenty of movies about virus pandemics, bio terrorism and the like. It's always suspicious to me when anyone talks with certainty like "zero potential for a vaccine in the remote future". How could anyone credibly say such a thing?

Edwin

I never said the flu vaccine was a scam. But I have listened to, and read, endless accounts from the CDC to immunologists, to geneticists, and as you say, its a moving target (exactly the same as a baseball from a pitcher). While they are in no way blindly throwing a dart at the wall with regards to a formulation for the years vaccine they are merely evaluating what evolutionary directions the virus has gone in the past and are basically making a forecast as to what the years strain is going to be. Sometimes they hit it, sometimes they hit part of it, sometimes they will miss.

Sars, MRSA, and the like are mentioned in the episode I posted. I am in no way in any form of an apocalyptic mindset. The planet can use a good purge now and then.

The bioterrorism aspect is also mentioned in the conversation in that an ebola vaccine was well underway for years before major outbreaks because governments were fearful of it being weaponized. This is not the case for influenza, coronoa, etc.. As with everything (also covered in the piece) there has to be a need be it financial or governmental/military defense to move these very costly vaccines forward.

Without a doubt medical staff are mandated to get the flu shot and many likely do willingly but the legal departments of the hospitals without a doubt make it mandatory for liability alone. I dont doubt that it somewhat cant hurt even if your building and storing a bit of an immune response each year.

[Pat Barry]

But why is it that more people are getting the flu

There are more people

[Jim Koepke]

I think flu shots are more about Big Pharma profits than about helping folks stay healthy.

How much can they profit when so many places provide free flu shots?

jtk

[Mark Bolton]

How much can they profit when so many places provide free flu shots?

jtk

Insurance companies still pay for the vaccines they are mandated to supply free of charge so pharma will always get paid (all you have to do is look at the personal wealth of the executives).

[Doug Garson]

There are more people

And more people are travelling to more places and potentially bringing back the virus.

[Mark Rainey]

Insurance companies still pay for the vaccines they are mandated to supply free of charge so pharma will always get paid (all you have to do is look at the personal wealth of the executives).

Most of us realize that health care is a huge business with obscene salaries to a few players in the system. There are many honest people in the system and they try their best, but even they will admit that money game dominates. The effectiveness of the vaccine has been looked at carefully. As previously stated, the best estimate is that if 200 people got the flu shot, and 200 did not, there would be about one less case of flu in the group that got the flu shot. In today's health care environment is would be foolish to think that profit does not play a role in promotion of the flu shot. You make the choice. If you like the odds, get it. If you don't, pass.

[Dan Friedrichs]

In terms of the financial incentives, it's worth noting that many doctor's offices lose money administering the shot*. The cost of the nurse time + alcohol wipe + syringe + rent on the office (pro-rated by the time you're in there) + etc, exceeds what insurance reimburses them (even if it's "free" to you). I'm sure your doctor still recommends you get one, though. Hard to argue that it's a financial scheme when the person putting the needle in your arm is spending money out of her own pocket to give it to you...

(*example source: https://pediatrics.aappublications.o...plement_5/S492)

[Pat Barry]

Unbelievable what some people believe. The internet is a poor source of information. Lots of data to support your viewpoint, just not enough
real information. PS: I'm sure the anti-vaxxers think the same way.

[Greg Funk]

Unbelievable what some people believe. The internet is a poor source of information. Lots of data to support your viewpoint, just not enough
real information. PS: I'm sure the anti-vaxxers think the same way.

Unfortunately, the plural of Anecdote is not 'Data'...