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Thread: I finally did it, bought a Festool Domino

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post

    None of this is intended to disparage dominos or biscuits, but just to create a perspective. I am very impressed with the DF500, and it has many uses, as Prashun mentioned. I find it useful for creating mortices to attach table tops. I considered the larger 700 when purchasing a Domino, and am happy I went with the smaller machine as it fits better with the size of furniture I build. I cannot imagine needing larger than 10mm dominos.
    The 700 is invaluable for creating larger (usually in my case) outdoor structures, or more recently doors, I marvel at the tenacity of people using it for such things as chairs, for which the 500 is a better bet.

  2. #47
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    My thoughts on the domino are pretty much spot on with Derek although I did sell my beloved lamello top 10. I have never used my domino for “mortice and tenon” as I will only use a traditional m&t in my furniture. The domino is awesome for locating, I recently used it to locate slats in a king size bed.

    B3345918-AE3E-4E8E-B6C1-0745F14FA9F5.jpg524E1191-80AE-49EF-85B5-C1918E16FE04.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by EeeeDerek Cohen View Post
    I have both a Domino DF500 and a DW biscuit joiner. Both have their uses, for example, dominos made decent joins for frames (for frame-and-panel doors) when building my kitchen.. This saved a lot of time and effort when there were around 25 frames to build. Biscuits are preferred to dominos for aligning thicknessed boards in a glue up.

    I see many rushing off to purchase a Domino tool and selling off their biscuit joiners. One does not replace the other. They are similar machines and overlap in their tasks, but they also differ in their strengths and weaknesses. For example, the shallow and long mortice of a biscuit is preferred for strengthening a mitred edge than the deep and narrow mortice of a domino.

    I hesitate to refer to the Domino as “mortice-and-tenon”. The joint it makes is a loose tenon. This is a production joint. It lacks the design and application range of a true tenon, which can vary in size and type for different applications. In the furniture I build, I almost only use true mortice-and-tenon joinery. I understand (and accept) that many want to use dominos and biscuits to replace this, but it is not the same and will have a short life span. For example, repair is difficult on these joints. I build furniture with traditional joinery as longevity is important. I assume that someone at some time in the future may wish to make a repair.

    None of this is intended to disparage dominos or biscuits, but just to create a perspective. I am very impressed with the DF500, and it has many uses, as Prashun mentioned. I find it useful for creating mortices to attach table tops. I considered the larger 700 when purchasing a Domino, and am happy I went with the smaller machine as it fits better with the size of furniture I build. I cannot imagine needing larger than 10mm dominos.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Mark e Kessler; 02-28-2020 at 10:30 PM.

  3. #48
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    ROFLOL!!! "You have been assimilated"...

    You may want to get the Festool hose to use with your existing vac so that you have the proper connection setup for the tool(s). Running a Domino without extraction is really messy! I do not recall if they make an adapter or not.
    LOL... At least I don't feel violated, just a little broke. The lady who owns the store, (and person who convinced me that I simply should not go through life any longer without the tool), told me dust extraction is critical and to not get mad at her if I break a bit using my shop vac. She sells both Fein and Festool and I'll need to decide which to buy in the near future. I'll probably just get one of the Festool vacs. In the meantime, I ordered the Bosch VAC005 hose from amazon that I believe is the correct size for use with the Domino. I was also fondling the Festool sanders and track saws.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Lebanon, TN
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    768
    I just finished a cabinet, today, to go under my SuperMax Drum Sander, I'm replacing the metal stand to give me something with better storage.

    Did about 30 Dominos to attach the sides, top, bottom and back. Used the CT26 vacuum, not a scrap of sawdust or chips visible.

    Love this setup.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    50
    I caved yesterday and took a sip of the green kool-aid as well. I bought off craigslist a practically brand new domino 500, with Seneca plate as well as systainer of other the other 4 bit sizes and dominoes. Cant wait to put to use

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Flower mound, Tx
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    “I hesitate to refer to the Domino as “mortice-and-tenon”. The joint it makes is a loose tenon. This is a production joint. It lacks the design and application range of a true tenon, which can vary in size and type for different applications. In the furniture I build, I almost only use true mortice-and-tenon joinery. I understand (and accept) that many want to use dominos and biscuits to replace this, but it is not the same and will have a short life span. For example, repair is difficult on these joints. I build furniture with traditional joinery as longevity is important. I assume that someone at some time in the future may wish to make a repair.”

    Derek,
    I think a few of your statements are flawed?
    Do you have any data that would support your belief that a floating “tenon” would be less strong and would have a “short life span”? How long have Domino joints been used? Are they failing in that time? I don’t think so.

    We have all seen furniture (old & new) that have had traditional joints fail.

    No one knows how a Domino joint will hold up to 100 years of use and humidity, but my bet is it will perform just as well if not better than a traditional joint?

    And not sure I get the “easier to repair” claim?

    Regards from Texas

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    7,237
    Quote Originally Posted by John Sincerbeaux View Post
    “I hesitate to refer to the Domino as “mortice-and-tenon”. The joint it makes is a loose tenon. This is a production joint. It lacks the design and application range of a true tenon, which can vary in size and type for different applications. In the furniture I build, I almost only use true mortice-and-tenon joinery. I understand (and accept) that many want to use dominos and biscuits to replace this, but it is not the same and will have a short life span. For example, repair is difficult on these joints. I build furniture with traditional joinery as longevity is important. I assume that someone at some time in the future may wish to make a repair.”

    Derek,
    I think a few of your statements are flawed?
    Do you have any data that would support your belief that a floating “tenon” would be less strong and would have a “short life span”? How long have Domino joints been used? Are they failing in that time? I don’t think so.

    We have all seen furniture (old & new) that have had traditional joints fail.

    No one knows how a Domino joint will hold up to 100 years of use and humidity, but my bet is it will perform just as well if not better than a traditional joint?

    And not sure I get the “easier to repair” claim?

    Regards from Texas
    The Domino is a mortice-making tool and the mortice created is quite a simple affair. I plan to explore using the Domino to develop the concept further, which may need to be done with hand tools. I'll provide examples in a short while. John, I did not state that a loose tenon joint was not strong, or that it would not last. I implied that it is a simple production joint designed for speed, and may not be used appropriately in situations where a different joint design is better utilised.

    As it stands, the Domino only creates the basis for a loose tenon joint, typically making blind mortice-and-tenon joints. And unless one has the knowledge of joinery, this is what it will remain. Because of its simplicity, I would argue that most users do not know about the range of mortice-and-tenon joinery that can be used for different situations. In their hands it just becomes another biscuit jointer.

    How many of these mortice-and-tenon joints have you used? Link: https://www.craftsmanspace.com/knowl...ng-joints.html


    A few mortise and tenon woodworking joints ....






    Through mortise and tenon joint




    Blind mortise and tenon joint




    Angled haunched mortise and tenon joint




    Application of haunched tenon joint to door frame






    Wedged through tenon and mortise joint




    Haunched tenon and mortise joint



    Interlocking tenon and mortise joint for seat rails of chair to leg



    Long and short shouldered tenon and mortise joint







    Tenon and mortise joint with mitered face



    Tusk tenon and mortise joint





    Tenon and mortise joint reinforced with dowel





    Self wedging tenon and mortise joint





    One of the most used mortice-and-tenon joints I use is the drawbored joint. This pulls the joint together mechanically. Dominos rely on glue. The two joints are different, not just in versatility, but also in reversibility.

    The table legs below utilise large mortice-and-tenons ...








    These ones appear that they could have been done with a Domino, however they were drawbored from the inside.





    There is also an issue of repairability. This is integral to good design and construction. You might wish that your joint will last 100 years, but a considerate builder works with the understanding that nature, in the form of expansion and contraction due to moisture, plays a larger role than we would desire. Humans also play a part, especially with chairs.

    Repairability in part it comes down to the glue one uses. It is less likely that one who works with dominos or biscuits will use hide glue, which is both reversible (with moist heat) and also one can re-glue it (it is okay to add hide glue on top of hide glue, which one cannot do with a white or yellow glue). This is partly a mindset thing.


    The second factor is that one is attempting to undo a joint which has glue on both ends, and not just on one end (so there is greater strength in this situation).


    Thirdly, there are a vast range of mortice-and-tenon joints to choose from, as I posted a link to above, and some are designed to be pulled apart with little damage.


    Regards from Perth


    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 03-04-2020 at 11:13 AM.

  8. #53
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    Derek
    Thanks for the very informative reply.
    There are certainly a huge variety of mortise and tenon joints available to a woodworker. Most of those illustrations are far too overly complicated and or time consuming for about 90% of woodworkers around the world.
    I own a Multi Router, Dewalt biscuit joiner, a Domino DF 500, and several Lie Nielsen hand tools. Like you said, each does things differently.
    Personally, if I am going for the ultimate in strength, and longevity in joinery, my choice is “dovetail”.
    My argument is this... a standard M&T (non-reinforced) joint cut with a Domino (non slop mode) vs. hand cut using the SAME glue and living in the SAME environment will last at least as long as the hand cut.
    As far as hide glue for ease of repair? Wouldn’t the same concept be true for domino joinery?

    Cheers

  9. #54
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    "far too overly complicated and or time consuming for about 90% of woodworkers around the world"

    You mean hobbyist don't you? Actually now that I think about it I believe a lot of hobbyist folks can do these joints, they are pretty straight forward classic joints. Certainly takes skill to execute some of them well... - 90% seems awful high...


    Quote Originally Posted by John Sincerbeaux View Post
    Derek
    Thanks for the very informative reply.
    There are certainly a huge variety of mortise and tenon joints available to a woodworker. Most of those illustrations are far too overly complicated and or time consuming for about 90% of woodworkers around the world.
    I own a Multi Router, Dewalt biscuit joiner, a Domino DF 500, and several Lie Nielsen hand tools. Like you said, each does things differently.
    Personally, if I am going for the ultimate in strength, and longevity in joinery, my choice is “dovetail”.
    My argument is this... a standard M&T (non-reinforced) joint cut with a Domino (non slop mode) vs. hand cut using the SAME glue and living in the SAME environment will last at least as long as the hand cut.
    As far as hide glue for ease of repair? Wouldn’t the same concept be true for domino joinery?

    Cheers
    Last edited by Mark e Kessler; 03-04-2020 at 11:49 AM.

  10. #55
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    Flower mound, Tx
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    Actually 90% might be low?
    I have been involved with competitive and professional woodworking for over 20 years. Have several professional WW friends with mad skills. But almost all use machinery for their joinery. I know Frank Strazza is a hand joinery guy. David Marks uses a Multi Router and uses floating tenon joinery. Paul Schurch uses a combo of both.
    But my point I raised was... I believe a Domino joint is as effective, strong, and lasting as any hand cut M&T joint. And further, I dont know of a single professional artist/craftsman that feels a machined joint somehow cheats his or her client.

  11. #56
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    I missed the "Handcut" part, hard for me to relate, I went to a furniture design/build school where for the first year we were taught how to use maintain our hand tools and were not allowed to use any machinery for our designs in the first 6 months and limited after that until 1 year, I have been building for over 30 years and only use machines for m+t however I would never use a domino/floating where I can use a traditional m+t that's just my flow and feel its superior regardless of data. I had a Multi router when I had my business and liked it a lot.


    Quote Originally Posted by John Sincerbeaux View Post
    Actually 90% might be low?
    I have been involved with competitive and professional woodworking for over 20 years. Have several professional WW friends with mad skills. But almost all use machinery for their joinery. I know Frank Strazza is a hand joinery guy. David Marks uses a Multi Router and uses floating tenon joinery. Paul Schurch uses a combo of both.
    But my point I raised was... I believe a Domino joint is as effective, strong, and lasting as any hand cut M&T joint. And further, I dont know of a single professional artist/craftsman that feels a machined joint somehow cheats his or her client.

  12. #57
    Join Date
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    On a small rail such as in a cabinet face, the domino is nowhere as strong as a traditional. Don't care what anyone read, I have tried and compared and it is just no where near as strong. It is my opinion, not strong enough. I will not stake my reputation on them.

    Also, properly cut traditionals hold things in square as it is assembled, Dominoes do not even on the no play setting, because there is actually play in that no play setting. Precisely locating parts is not possible with the domino, but with a well executed traditional spacing between components does not even have to be checked at glue up.

    Every tool has its purpose, just don't find the domino to be all that useful.
    Last edited by Larry Edgerton; 03-04-2020 at 4:59 PM.

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