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Thread: Do we ever say no?

  1. #1

    Do we ever say no?

    How often does a member say "should I buy this saw or the bigger saw?" or maybe they ask if a new tool will be a good addition to their collection, a new garage door? Should I run 220v to my garage?
    it's inevitable we say yes. Granted it's our collective experience that buying contractor saw is better than a portable saw and a cabinet saw is better than a contractors saw. I'm sure in some instances we advise smaller or cheaper but how often is that?

  2. #2
    If we say no to those type of questions, then no might be the answer next time *we* ask, and we wouldn't want that, would we?
    --Certainty is the refuge of a small mind--

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by kent wardecke View Post
    How often does a member say "should I buy this saw or the bigger saw?" or maybe they ask if a new tool will be a good addition to their collection, a new garage door? Should I run 220v to my garage?
    it's inevitable we say yes. Granted it's our collective experience that buying contractor saw is better than a portable saw and a cabinet saw is better than a contractors saw. I'm sure in some instances we advise smaller or cheaper but how often is that?
    Saying no is detrimental to our hopes and dreams. It is local to the Province Of Negativity. You can't get there from here.

  4. #4
    We sure dont say 'no' often.

    But you really dont have to have the biggest, most expensive tool all the time, right? I think we can make the price of entry scare away newbies sometimes. I always enjoy hearing from the folks that are using shopsmiths and recycled hand tools to do nice work.
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 02-01-2020 at 5:10 PM.

  5. #5
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    As normal humans, it is always fun to spend other people's money.

    Usually my answer to such questions (mostly in the Neanderthal Haven conference) is to ask questions as to why a particular item is chosen.

    Commonly it seems someone wants to purchase a new high dollar plane, saw, chisel or other item. For me, the only reason to validate the purchase is if there isn't something commonly available to satisfy the need.

    There are a few tools purchased new in my shop. They were purchase either because the new one is less expensive than what has become a collector item or the difficulty of finding an old one proved to be difficult.

    Why should a person purchase a new chisel when ones like this are to be found:

    3:4%22 U.S.N. Chisel.jpg

    On the back this is stamped Winsted Edge Tool Co. This is the company that made T.H. Witherby chisels. It set me back $3.24 including tax.

    If you want to find something like this new, it is likely to set you back a bit more:

    Socket Firmer 3:4%22.png

    Quite a bit more, $120 + shipping is a lot to pay for new & shiny.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 02-01-2020 at 5:16 PM. Reason: $120 + shipping is a lot to pay for new & shiny.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #6
    Jim, I agree. That does not get said enough. Some fine talents here have tested vintage chisels against the pricey
    PM-11 stuff and find the vintage chisels in second place. I appreciate their efforts ,but the old stuff can often be bought
    at really low prices and is better than much of the new stuff.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    As normal humans, it is always fun to spend other people's money.
    Especially if it's your own money first, which is _always_ more important to you personally (we're all human,) and you're just trying to save other people from making the same mistake. Don't discount altruism.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Jim, I agree. That does not get said enough. Some fine talents here have tested vintage chisels against the pricey
    PM-11 stuff and find the vintage chisels in second place. I appreciate their efforts ,but the old stuff can often be bought
    at really low prices and is better than much of the new stuff.
    I'm a big fan of vintage metal if you can find it in good condition. It doesn't have to be shiny to "new" standards, if you can _find_ it, in good condition. We haven't _all_ gone to "old tool heaven" where all the bulldogs have rubber teeth, and the cast steel flows like candy down mountain streams, etc. I've got mine (I won't say "get yours") but it does come at a price, which is not penny candy. The modern stuff that competes with it is not cheap.

  9. #9
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    A number of years ago, someone up the road was selling a 16-32 drum sander for $350. I was very interested.
    Pulled over and called. The older gentleman who answered said it was getting too late for me to drop in (It was around 7pm) but I was welcomed to stop in next day. Sounded like was in new condition and not used much.
    Anyway I posted for experienced users on Sawmill Creek and was talked out of buying it.
    I have always kinda regretted not picking it up. But who knows, If purchased, may have been sorry.

    But yes, We do sometimes say no.
    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
    - Rick Dale

  10. #10
    It's always been my motto to buy the best tool you afford, that will serve your needs. Not always the most expensive. Look at the Forrest WWII. Seldom have I ever seen one in a commercial cabinet shop, but hobbiest can't live without one. Same goes for Forrest sharpening services, way over priced, but some will use no other. Not picking on Forrest alone, just as an example. Same goes for my HF multitool. Sure a Fein would be nice, but the HF does what I need. 30+ years ago, my boss told me to get a Honda generator for one of our projects in Petersburg VA. Told him, for the price of the Honda, I could buy four Coleman Powermates. I bought only one Powermate, and it's still in my shop today. Does everything the Honda would have, only louder.

  11. #11
    Moment of regret or careful contemplation?

  12. #12
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    What I notice frequently is not so much never saying “no” but advice for questions not asked. The OP asks for recs on a “new 14” band saw under 1100” and many respond with “buy Model X 18” band saw for 1600 dollars” and “buy old iron on Craigslist.” It seems many people, including me, believe what suits our individual needs will meet everyone else’s needs too. Luckily we have the same general interest (making sawdust) but different special interests, otherwise all the advice and commentary on here would be the same.

  13. #13
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    Our friend never says no to her son. When he asks for something crazy she just asks him. "did you bump your head?"
    Bill D

  14. #14
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    Another one of my oft made comments to those asking about tool purchases is to consider the money versus time situation.

    My beginning in woodworking had me in a situation a little stretched financially and having the spare time of any average man with 4 kids and a job.

    Buying new premium tools was out of the question. Buying used or inexpensive and learning to get it in shape was the only way for me to accumulate some tools. This was almost 40 years ago. A lot of my early lumber was from recycling pallets.

    Now with kids who are grown and on their own there is even more time and the finances are a bit more flexible.

    Anyone considering a purchase that comes down to the decision of new vs something needing a bit of work may want to think about whether they have more time or more money.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Gaskin View Post
    Moment of regret or careful contemplation?
    Contemplation
    The more i think about it we,as a group, are pretty good. Something never offered is "you'd be better off putting that $1100 in an IRA" But if the OP asks a Chevy or a Ford we discuss the pros and cons we have learned from our experience. Of course someone will say buy a Cadillac but rarely will someone suggest a yugo because we know that's false economy

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