SawStop Contractor saw for furniture making? (+ New to forum introduction)

[Mike Kees]

I recently was at Lee Valley in Calgary and had a staff person trying to talk me into a Sawstop,even though I am not in the market for a TS. I did notice one thing ,price. For what they wanted for the pro model ($5000+) you can get into a Minimax SC2 short stroke slider for maybe 4-500 more. That is a no brainer for me,it would be the Minimax. I would also take a serious look at the Grizzly 1023 saws. One of my ex employees purchased a Grizzly 1023 and it is a very well built and capable saw,every bit as good as my Unisaw. If you want the Sawstop technology there is only one saw that has it. If you are going to drop that much cash on a new saw at least check out a slider. Good luck ,I hope you are happy with whatever you end up with.

[Ron Selzer]

I started out with a 10" table saw from JCPenney, non metallic top, the blade would move sideways in a bind, the fence had to measure both ends, etc. Made furniture with it for myself and for sale. Upgraded to a Delta contractors saw which i did less with do to work demanding more hours. finally with a small inheritance from grandparents my mother withheld for 25 yrs bought an SawStop ICS with all options available at that time, 5hp single phase, mobile base, overarm dust collection, 36" fence due to space constraints, extra brake cartridges, etc. A Forrest dado blade, rip blade, etc. Each saw was an improvement over where I was at. I build way more furniture now than with the contractors saw almost as much as with the JCPenny saw. My new wife likes the fact she knows where I am at and she, kids and grandkids get new furniture from time to time. I do have a band saw which rarely gets used. Have two radial arm saws and two panel saws also.
If you make it this far I recommend the PCS over the contractors saw and the ICS over the PCS. The PCS takes up less actual room than the contractors due to motor placement, is easier to move due to removable top, more accurate and very important to me it collects saw dust a lot better.
Good luck, enjoy a long time of making saw dust.
Ron

[Tim M Tuttle]

I started out with a 10" table saw from JCPenney, non metallic top, the blade would move sideways in a bind, the fence had to measure both ends, etc. Made furniture with it for myself and for sale. Upgraded to a Delta contractors saw which i did less with do to work demanding more hours. finally with a small inheritance from grandparents my mother withheld for 25 yrs bought an SawStop ICS with all options available at that time, 5hp single phase, mobile base, overarm dust collection, 36" fence due to space constraints, extra brake cartridges, etc. A Forrest dado blade, rip blade, etc. Each saw was an improvement over where I was at. I build way more furniture now than with the contractors saw almost as much as with the JCPenny saw. My new wife likes the fact she knows where I am at and she, kids and grandkids get new furniture from time to time. I do have a band saw which rarely gets used. Have two radial arm saws and two panel saws also.
If you make it this far I recommend the PCS over the contractors saw and the ICS over the PCS. The PCS takes up less actual room than the contractors due to motor placement, is easier to move due to removable top, more accurate and very important to me it collects saw dust a lot better.
Good luck, enjoy a long time of making saw dust.
Ron

Geez, I forgot to mention the motor issue. Yeah, massive PITA. That alone would be worth the extra cost.

[Charles P. Wright]

Different people work differently. A Sawstop PCS 3HP is the center of my shop, I have a good bandsaw (MM16); but the table saw came first and if I had to give one up, it would be the bandsaw. I upgraded from a RIDGID TS3650 contractor saw to the saw stop, primarily for the safety, but the bigger table and more power didn't hurt either. The contractor vs. cabinet saw does not change much in the way of portability in my mind, neither of them are things you really want to move except on your mobile base.

The 120V vs. 220V can matter if you are going to move and aren't sure what you'll be renting. A job site saw is much more portable, but will not have the same mass as a contractor or cabinet saw; and having a lot of mass is useful.

[Jim Dwight]

It depends on what you make (or will make) but in general a table saw is used a lot more than a bandsaw. I've been making sawdust for 50+ years. I recently upgraded to a 1.75hp PCS. I made a lot of furniture for me and my kids on cheaper, less capable saws. Immediately before the PCS I was using a Ryobi BT3100, for instance. I agree with the comment that a Grizzly would be about equal to the SawStop except for the protection device.

I just completed two nightstands out of cherry after making my third bed based upon Woodsmith's Classic Cherry design. My two kids have the other two. It is all straight cuts. I could probably have made it with a bandsaw and my track saw but it was a lot easier using my table saw.

On the other hand, I plan to make a dining table next with curved legs. I do not currently have a bandsaw but plan to get one for this project and will then use it for other stuff involving really thick cuts or curved cuts.

Between the PCS and the contractor version I don't know. I really like my PCS. It would likely be your one and only table saw purchase. If you buy the contractor saw, the odds go up you will upgrade later. I don't think there is much functional difference but I think the dust collection will be better with the PCS and I wonder if you wouldn't need to square the blade to the rip fence more often. The PCS has the mechanism attached to the base, not the table top, like Industrial table saws are made. I think the contractors saw has the mechanism hanging off the table top which isn't as robust.

I do not believe a 1.75hp saw will be an issue. I have used but never owned a 220V table saw. I cut 2-3 inches deep in hardwood fairly often. I did it in softwood yesterday. I used a 1/8, full kerf, combination blade. For hardwood I would switch to a ripping blade. The only time I have had difficulty with the PCS is when the kerf closed up behind the cut and pinched the blade. The riving knife should have prevented it but SawStop gives you a relatively thin one so it works with thinner kerf blades. I flipped the board over and finished the cut from the opposite direction. I'm sure a 3hp saw is nice but the 1.75hp will do everything I want it to do.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I came from a Shopsmith, bought in 1983 and sold in 2019.

I went with the SawStop PCS 1.75 36". The SawStop was initially used in my wife's bay of the garage and so had to be put away each night. The ICS mobile base was wonderful for this. I made a fold down outfeed table.

I moved from TX to TN. Moving the saw, which I did by myself, was very easy as no vertical steps were involved.

In my new garage, I had 220V so I changed the motor out to the 220v 3HP.

The saw is now the only tool that I no longer move to use it. I love this saw. The dust collection is good, the blade angle setting stops. i.e. 90 and 45 were spot on from the factory. Blade changes, even with the cartridge swap, are simple.

I think between the Contractor version and the PCS, I would go with the PCS.

I did change the fence system to the Incra LS-TS positioner, mainly because I wanted to add a router table in the end of the table. I really like this fence system for the simple setup and repeatability.

I made myself a cheap cross cut sled, which is bang on accurate and use this 99% of the time when making cross cuts.

If was a big deal, to me, when I bought the SawStop. At the time, that was the most I've ever spent on a dedicated tool. But after using it for the past 5 years, I had no regrets spending that kind of money. It also makes the hobby much more fun when the tool perform so perfectly and produces the desired results every time you use it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi everyone,

Looks like there’s a lot of love for the bandsaw here. Could one of you guys elaborate slightly more on that.

As admitted earlier, I’m quite the novice. So far in my two completed projects (night table and entry way bench,) most of the work was joinery and panel creation. And the dresser, table, bed frame and shelves I have planned are pretty straight with some tapper, Which I had planned to do on the table saw.

Also still would love to hear from any sawstop owners and their thoughts, if any come across this thread.
John

Hi, I normally teach the band saw, jointer and planer as a one day seminar.

We take rough material, break it down into usable pieces on the band saw then joint and plane to dimension.

After that you have the components you need to make furniture in a traditional manner. (solid wood, raised panel doors, gables, legs, aprons etc.).

If you're breaking down timbers to length, a handsaw would be as accurate as you need.

I normally only use the sliding table saw for sheet goods.

I could do without a table saw, I couldn't do without a band saw, J/P and shaper.

As for a SS or any other cabinet saw, you could never convince me to go back to one after buying a Euro slider.

Get a good 18" or larger band saw, get a good jointer/planer.......Build a pile of furniture then buy a sliding saw..............Regards, Rod.

[kent wardecke]

I work on a delta contractor saw. The main downside is the open cabinet it makes collecting dust a challenge. At the time I didn't think would need the bigger fence. Now I see it would be useful.
buy the most saw you can afford, you'll grow into it.

[Alex Zeller]

Don't let people here fool you. You need everything, lol. Just kidding, sort of. Try to decide what you want to accomplish first and more importantly how you plan on building it. Cabinets usually mean plywood and to me a slider would be #1 on the list but they aren't cheap and can take up a fair bit of room. A cabinet saw would be my second choice. Maybe look around for a used one. Then get plenty of time learning how to use it. They are easy to set up and simple to use but you would be surprised at what it takes to master one. If you get one that has the extended rails for the fence it makes for a nice place to mount a router.

For me (other than cutting bowl blanks) my band saw means using my jointer and possibly planer. That's 3 pieces of equipment to master at the same time. When everything works right you'll feel like a god but the band saw, jointer, and planer require more work when things aren't right than a table saw. Don't get me wrong, you will need them and will need to learn how to correct any problems. I've never used a shop smith so I don't know how well it'll prepare you.

A track saw might work for you but I find that narrow pieces are hard (if not impossible). Everything you can buy will have limitations and often saws will have overlap between different styles. One saw may not be the best choice for the project but with skill can still get it done. Sooner or later you'll wish you purchased something different so the key is to try to do as little of that as possible. I would opt not to get the contractor's saw because I think you will outgrow it sooner than you think. I also like the weight of a cabinet saw.

[glenn bradley]

20-odd responses so far. Hope you're not getting buried. I'll touch on a few things and try to stay focused on your original post. I will state that I ran a 1.75HP hybrid saw with great results for some time. I got a chance to upgrade to a 3HP saw. The hybrid did everything I asked of it. The 3HP saw does the same with greater ease and confidence. If a twist of fate had not come along I would probably still be happily using the 1.75HP hybrid. That being said . . .

• The smaller footprint of a cabinet saw versus a contractor saw can be nice.
• The dust collection of a cabinet saw versus a contractor saw can be better. I am not sure how good the SS contractor dust collection is so that may be moot.
• The driving factor for me would not be contractor saw versus cabinet saw format as much as it would be table mounted versus cabinet mounted trunnions; cabinet mounted being the way to go.

Given that you are focused on Saw Stop offerings I will not wander from that. I have a Saw Stop 3HP PCS but, consider the safety feature a freebie considering that the operational quality of the saw competes directly with other $3k saws. You are right on track with the fence selection. Saw Stop's "Premium" fence isn't really. The T-Glide is fine; I ran a Biesemeyer "Commercial" for years and so have a good comparison. Whichever model you choose, the safety feature has an override for any cuts you may need to make in aluminum, wet or otherwise conductive material, etc.

If you were simply asking about a contractor saw versus a cabinet saw I would recommend a used contractor saw for someone just starting out. It gives you a chance to learn what is really important to you in a tablesaw with a minimum of investment and little pain when you sell it to the next newbie who takes it to its new home. Since it is Saw Stop A, B, C or D I will echo the recommendation of buying the best you can afford. If you stick with it you will have the saw for life. If you decide this is not for you, the better saw will command a better resale cost recoup. JMHO.

[John Strong]

Thank you to everyone for all the input! I did managed to read all your posts as they streamed in at light speed.

I just got a tip off on somoneone selling the 3hp Sawstop PCS with 36inch Tslide fence and integrated mobile base for $2500, within driving distance. Seems like a pretty decent price? ~9 months old. Maybe it’s fate.

Plan is to pick it up this Saturday. Very excited.

[Myles Moran]

That's a great deal, especially if it's the industrial mobile base. FYI when you go to get it, sawstop has a guide how to brace the internals for the drive. Go to their website and contact tech support and they'll email it to you. That setup with no mobile base retails at $3050 plus tax.

[Rod Wolfy]

Thank you to everyone for all the input! I did managed to read all your posts as they streamed in at light speed.

I just got a tip off on somoneone selling the 3hp Sawstop PCS with 36inch Tslide fence and integrated mobile base for $2500, within driving distance. Seems like a pretty decent price? ~9 months old. Maybe it’s fate.

Plan is to pick it up this Saturday. Very excited.

John,
Sounds like an excellent choice. I haven't posted on here in years, but your question pulled me in. I started playing in woodworking with my first house and eventually got a Jet 3hp saw with a 52" fence. I used it for a few years and got a 6" jointer and lunchbox planer and 14" band saw. The band saw is nice for all sorts of projects and is a lot safer (relative) than a table saw, as the blade is going straight down into the table (no kickback). I would suggest getting a used one to start with, as they are 10x better than a jig saw for any kind of curved cuts.

I had the opportunity to purchase a Felder in 2003 and went to California to pack it onto a pallet and send it north. I did two kitchens on it and the sliding table is amazing! It runs right up to the blade. It had a 12" jointer and planer, along with a shaper. I moved after 20 years and had to sell the Felder, due to space (also my 20" Agazzani) band saw!). But, one of the things I learned is that it's way more convenient to cut down sheet goods prior to trying to use a table saw - even with a slider. I used a track saw 90% of the time on the initial cut.

When I moved, I still needed a saw to rip stuff and a track saw or circular saw doesn't do this well. It's also relatively hard to rip a 2x6 or whatever on a band saw that is 8' long. I got a portable Bosch table saw for ripping lumber. It worked for a couple of years; however, the motor bogged down on a lot of the cuts, stalling out on 8/4 walnut.

I was against a SawStop for years, due to how it was initially put forth to the market. The tipping point for me was how much would a finger cost? I had a cyst removed from the top of my finger and the doctor's bill was over $1,500.

I watched Craigslist for two years solid before I found a SawStop being sold used that would work for me. I specifically got the SawStop with the 3hp motor and the 36" fence for space reasons. It was as nice a saw as a $3k cabinet saw (3hp). To me, it was worth double what a Jet had cost. I would purchase the SawStop cabinet saw again in a minute. It's on a mobile base and I got Jessem Saw Guides on the fence, using a MagSwitch jig.

As far as the loss of the jointer and planer, I got a Jet 12" combo, which is parked on a wall and takes up less space than the old 6" jointer and planer. It gets as much use as the table saw and band saw, especially for furniture making. I have a 14" Jet band saw.

If I did have an extra $7k given to me, I'd use it to get a 16" Euro jointer/planer, before I got another slider.

[John Strong]

FYI when you go to get it, sawstop has a guide how to brace the internals for the drive. Go to their website and contact tech support and they'll email it to you.

Thanks for the tip Myles, I'll definitely try to get my hands on that guide.

[Thomas Wilson]

Fifty years ago I too used a Shop Smith. It is a terrible table saw. With your new Sawstop, you will love having a fence that stays parallel to the blade. The safety factor of the saw will become the icing on the cake to having a large table and an accurate fence.