Member
If you go to a Lie Nielsen event and look at the chisels with a loupe, every single one has chips on the edge. I cannot imagine one could sell something like that in 1820. Quality control is not much help if you don't know what to aim for.
This evening I looked at the seven 19th century chisels on my bench right now: no chips at all.
Contributor
For your understanding of 19th century western tools one must also consider sharpening media and use cycle. One did not work until the tool failed them but resharpened much more readily.
In current day many people who are newer to woodworking will use a tool until its failure point, where it must be resharprned. And so begins the cycle of searching for the steel that lasts forever. As one gains experience they begin to include the inevitability of sharpening commonly into their routine and maintain a high quality edge.
Personally I do like an edge that holds up well, wears evenly, and is easy to sharpen.
I have precious few 19th century western blades. But the few I have are excellent. They may not have had the same level of testing equipment as we have but I do believe they were capable of a consistent high quality product. The scale of manufacturing was huge then, consider that Butcher made enough chisels that they’re still commonplace over 100 years later at flea markets.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
Contributor
It’s my opinion that a new comer would be best served by cycling their tools through sharpening routine very often and putting the idea of fatigued out of their head. If chips are developing then the tool has been used far too long. Having fresh steel reduces the chance of edge chipping greatly.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
[OP]
Contributor
I see. My statement was about the steel itself; the base material the manufacturers had available to work with. It was in no way intended to denigrate the quality of manufacturing the actual tools. We have certainly lost much in the way of tool manufacturing that was. In the words of Christopher Schwarz, adequate is the new "premium."
Still, it seems hardly fair to compare a factory ground edge with one repeatedly sharpened and maintained by someone with your level of expertise.
[OP]
Contributor
A fair point; thank you.
Contributor
Sometimes I just get lost in these discussions about steels, manufacturers and countries of origin. I’m definitely not doing production work anymore. A long time ago I gave up stressing about sharpening and just do it. Over the years I had lots of tools and even some from the same era and manufacturer that were just bad. You soon recognize that and just set that one aside. When I pick up an edge tool and things don’t feel right I go to the stones and make it right. I really don’t think about it. I don’t think about the steel it’s made of or where it was made, I just sharpen up and go. Don’t pay attention to how long it takes. I care more about how the tool feels in hand. I don’t like hard to deal with blades. Gave away all the A2 tools years ago. I do like PMV 11 plane irons. To me sharpening is like needing a drink of water. If you don’t let the tool get totally beat up a few strokes on your finishing stone a maybe a little strop and your done. I do hate it when my old hands let one hit the floor and have to go to grinding.
Member
"My knowledge of this is unobscured by professional understanding" is one of my favorite quotes from physicist Lev Landau (although he was actually referring to psychology.)Originally Posted by James Pallas
Contributor
Time permitting, I like to sharpen my chisels before I put them away. I don[t usually do this with my hand planes, but my chisels get much more work than my planes; usually.
Contributor
My tools get sharpened as they need it whether it be in the middle of work at the end of the day or when they are picked up.
Sometimes when a project is finished all the chisels and planes are put away. This is why some tools get sharpened when they are put in use.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
[OP]
Contributor
For my own part, I tend to let the work tell me when it's time to sharpen. I sharpen when: the cut requires too much force to allow easy control, I can't hear/feel what's going on at the edge, or if the surface finish indicates an insufficiently sharp blade. Brian's statements, above, suggest that perhaps I am waiting too long and should instead refresh the edge before it reaches such a condition. Upon further reflection, I believe he's right.
Brian: thanks again.
Best regards,
Michael
Contributor
I like steels such as Veritas PM-V11 and White Steel since they take a very good edge and then hold it longer. However, it needs to be emphasised that this statement needs to be seen in its true context. Outside of a testing session comparing steels, one would not know this. So, regardless of the chosen steel, we just use a tool, and then sharpen it as deemed necessary. We assume that we are getting a longer working life from PM-V11, but in reality we do not know. Similarly, I have Blue Spruce A2 chisels which, on paper, should make for horrible tools. Yet these are simply wonderful to use ... light and nimble. Do they take a poorer edge than PM-V11, or hold it for a shorter period? Probably, but this is not evident in use. Again, I just sharpen as needed (which is when an edge is no longer gliding through a cut).
Regards from Perth
Derek
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