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Thread: New Cermark "Ultra" coming in February

  1. #1

    New Cermark "Ultra" coming in February

    I don't sell the stuff, I just keep them in business, and to be honest, I've been getting very weary of the dark gray results I've been getting for a couple of years now with the LMM-6000 I've been using. And I'm only able to get 'dark' gray with 2 of my 4 machines. I have a pile of 'bankrupt' SS plates I made several years ago, I used a couple of them awhile back to test some LMM-14 along side the 6000 I use, AND I was testing 2 machines: the "TESTING" engraving was done with my LS-100 machine, my 900 did the 'gravograph' line...

    These are 2 different plates, I flipped them end over end between the 2 plates to equalize the lighting angles...
    cm1.jpg cm2.jpg
    First- my 900 engraves darker than the 100, most apparent with the LMM6000.
    The LMM14, the 100 is a bit darker but the 900 is lighter, they're almost equal-
    -which is worse in my opinion and why I still use the 6000.
    But the MVW plates are BLACK! They were done with my old 25w Universal. And my 900 made them just as black.

    Every since they changed the formula, I can only cut it half as much as before, I used go nearly 4:1 DNA, now any more than 2:1 and it's too lean. And the new version has never been as black, and seems to be getting worse instead of better. FWIW, the GCC Explorer does just as black as my 900. The Triumph engraves lighter, much like the 100. I have four machines and can only Cermark with 2 of them. But the problem with my LS-100 is the lens; I swapped in the 900's lens tube once and the mark was every bit as dark as the 900... I bought a couple of ebay lenses, to no avail. But I just now bought a II-VI lens off ebay, hoping it'll do the trick. Just wondering if these cheap II-VI's are just knock-offs like the counterfeit 5200 chillers, or the real deal... Guess I'll find out!

    So, here's what I found about the new Cermark, I just hope it's half as better as they say it is. Important to ME I've highlighted in Red.
    New CerMark Ultra

    The CerMark Research & Development team is pleased to announce the approaching release of a new CerMark coating. This product should be available for sale around the end of February.
    This new coating is formulated to work on all typical laser markable hard surfaces such as metals, glass, ceramics (glazed or unglazed), stone, brick (glazed & unglazed), slate and more. This formula is not intended for painted items, wood or plastics.

    The new laser marking material will raise the bar considerably for laser bonding speed, versatility, quality and durability.

    Fastest marking speed possible
    Preliminary testing shows many customers should be able to mark stainless steel with their laser system set at 100% marking speed with only needing as little as 40 watts of CO2 power.
    This coating will also create deep black marks at a very wide range of laser power and speed settings.

    Much improved glass marking
    There is a much greater ease of glass marking at a wider range of settings and much less coating thickness will be required.
    Same application/handling qualities as CerMark LMM-6000
    The liquid version can still be thinned with alcohol based liquids to allow for fast drying time. The dilution ratios will remain the same as LMM-6000 and LMM-14, 1:1 for spraying and 2:1 for brush on applications. Once dry it will not rub off on your fingers while handling it. This will allow you to coat items and box or stack them for marking at a later date.

    No hard settling
    Formulated to eliminate clumping in liquid form and spray cans which allows for easy mixing before use.


    Improved spray can design
    A new specially designed valve system will be introduced as part of the new coating spray can allowing for better performance and eliminating the need to store can upside down.
    Will not stain (tarnish) sensitive metals
    Will not stain or tarnish sensitive metals such as brass, copper, and some other forms of steel.


    The new CerMark product should be available Q1 of 2020 in both aerosol & liquid providing a variety of application methods for our customers.
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  2. #2
    I actually was able to talk with the owner Mike on the phone when I was having some issues with it. He was able to help me get a nice black mark again.

    I am most excited about being able to run at 100% speed.

  3. #3
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    I'm actually wanting it to use on aluminum. No settings I've tried work on any aluminum that I've tried with any of the current materials. 14 and 6000 and the laserbond stuff (which is so NASTY to use I won't even try any more)
    I've had several projects that I had to let pass as my laser just won't bond it at all. Scrubs off leaving shadow.
    Woodworking, Old Tools and Shooting
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    SFX 50 Watt Fiber Laser
    PM2000, Delta BS, Delta sander, Powermatic 50 jointer,
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  4. #4
    For the most part I've had pretty good luck with Cermark on aluminum-
    ca.jpg ca2.jpg
    My 80w glass Triumph did this engraving. 2 of my 3 RF machines don't have the power needed, but my LS-100 will work, just to run slow and 600 res for lots of overlap...

    The one time I didn't have the best luck was during the holidays, I lasered the end cap of a power amp for a friend, using 6061 aluminum I'd bought for these amps over 10 years ago. The aluminum was stored uncovered, subjected to coolant overspray, dust, dirt and everything else around here. It was pretty cruddy. I ran a green Scotchbrite over with it some cleaner spray, wiped it off, it looked pretty good...but what I didn't do was give it a good DNA wash and scrub. It looked good, but it was scrubbing off with a magic eraser. Result when I stopped scrubbing was a nice consistent burn, but a very middle-road gray, nothing close to black (where've I heard that before? ), and I got the feeling if I kept scrubbing I could just take it all off. All other aluminum that's worked nicely has been 'fresh'. The end cap piece, after 10 years of sitting probably had a right thick layer of oxide buildup that wasn't removed with little bit of prep I gave it, and I assume that the oxide prevented the Cermark from bonding...

    The pieces in the pic were Chem-filmed, so no oxide layer to worry about. I've done over 1500 aluminum panels for one customer, 2-character "J" numbers on 12-hole plates, these panels are heavily sanded and not treated, and I get them in 400-piec batches, fresh from their metal shop. I just wipe down with some DNA before the Cermark.
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  5. #5
    watching...interesting. Thanks for the info.
    Epilog Legend 36EXT ~35W
    30W Fiber Laser
    Ender 3 PRO
    Corel X6
    AutoCAD 2019
    FFL 01

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Me,from my original post View Post
    ... I bought a couple of ebay lenses, to no avail. But I just now bought a II-VI lens off ebay, hoping it'll do the trick. Just wondering if these cheap II-VI's are just knock-offs like the counterfeit 5200 chillers, or the real deal... Guess I'll find out!
    So I got my new II-VI lens in the mail the other day, and whether it's a knock-off or the real deal-- BEST 30 bucks I've spent in a LONG time!

    Big ID plate I just lasered with the new lens, with the same test plates on top for reference:
    nwlns.jpg
    --Like night & day, MUCH blacker, I am HAPPY!
    I'm gonna get 2 of these for every machine! If I can get the Triumph to laser darker...
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  7. #7
    --some Cermark updates--

    Update #1, the II-VI lens... Turns out that reason it made the Cermark darker wasn't simply because it's a better lens, it's because it was about .050" (1.3mm) out of focus! I initially ran the Cermark using the same focus distance as the original lens. I found out after ramp testing the that II-VI focus distance was a bit closer. Once I did more Cermark at its actual focus distance, the result was about the same as the original lens. I say 'was' because I accidentally broke the new lens in half. After re-installing the original lens, I focused, then dropped the table another .050" and I got nice black etching! Takes a bit less speed to insure good fusion but it works!

    About the new Cermark Ultra- every couple of weeks I check in and once another month passes by the roll-out date changes...
    cumsg.jpg

    I've had a sneaking suspicion from the get-go that this was a bit of a pipe dream; my big worry has been longevity of the finished product. Something this fast n' slick replacing the very-necessary slow n' methodical versions, there's likely going to be compromises. I'm not sure IF they're having a life-expectancy problem, but it seems to be the most logical issue. Hopefully they get it sorted out. I use a LOT of Cermark and would welcome a better way. So far none of Cermark's competition has worked out for me, the black one eats foam brushes so it must be sprayed, the white must be sprayed just to get it on evenly, and it's too 'amount specific', the blackness is directly proportional to how thick it's applied...

    And last night I figured out after 18 years of using LMM-6000, that the metal must be allowed to get HOT. How I came to find out- I was lasering some 8x9" very wordy specification ID plates and they were warping very badly. I've used wet rags under stainless that I fiber laser to keep the metal cool, and it works great. So I soaked a red shop rag and placed under the next plate I engraved, and the nearly all the black just washed off. But, I hadn't refocused to account for the thickness of the rag, so I thought that was the problem. Meanwhile I soaked another rag and ran another plate in the smaller laser. Even with the rag the left side of the metal (left justified text) warped quite a bit. When I rinsed off the remaining Cermark, the center of the plate- which was in firm contact with the wet rag- all the black washed off. But the left edge- which had lifted from the rag due to the warpage- the Cermark was very dark and well-fused to the metal. So, it's evident (to me) that the wet rag was pulling away the heat so well that the Cermark couldn't heat-soak as needed to fuse well...

    SO-- cold SS doesn't Cermark well! I've been having issues with SS Yeti's & such with the 30w GCC at times, so the next one that comes in, once the Cermark is dry I'm going to heat the cup up with a heat gun and see what happens.

    I'm really hoping they get the new Ultra figured out, whatever the issue
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by John Lifer View Post
    I'm actually wanting it to use on aluminum. No settings I've tried work on any aluminum that I've tried with any of the current materials.
    I have a ULS 50 watt and have never had a problem on alum. 100% power and 10% speed.
    Laser: ULS M300-50 watts, ULS X25-75 watt, Chinese 100 and 150 watt
    Software: Corel Draw, Corel PhotoPaint X8, Aspire, MasterCam, Fusion 360
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