Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34

Thread: Anyone knowledgeable about computer hard drives, i need some help

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,389

    Anyone knowledgeable about computer hard drives, i need some help

    In November 2019 purchased a New Dell workstation computer for doing Solidworks 3D modeling,
    In December i purchased a BenQ 32 workstation monitor.
    The monitor arrived December 24th.
    I hooked up the new system and within the day it was going to blue screen and refusing to start.
    I spent five days trying all of the fixes and downloads that Dell recomends and most i could find on YouTube and the internet in general.
    Nothing worked
    Dell sent in a technician to replaced the motherboard, SSD, memory, heat sink and new Operating system. Still wont start.
    After a load of emails and a few weeks they have finally agreed to replace it. With "like or better parts" And it should only take another month to arrive.

    I suggested a nice gesture for my lost time and inconvenience would be a performance upgrade.

    This is what they have offered as a replacement.
    The hard drives are what they have changed, No explanation of why they cant supply the same as the original'
    Anyone have an explanation or opinion?
    Have they offered me more than i had ?
    Which is a better system for what i wanted to use it for?
    I was of the understanding that the original SSD and Sata drive was better than what they have offered as a replacement, is that right?
    I am a little lost at the moment so any opinions would be welcome.


    The first offer below;


    Desktop Original Replacement Offered
    System Model Dell Outlet Precision T3630 Dell Precision T3630
    Processor Intel Core 9th Generation i7-9700K Processor (8 Core, up to 4.90Ghz, 12MB Cache, 95W) Intel Core i7-9700K, 8 Core, 12MB Cache, 3.6Ghz, 4.9 Ghz Turbo w/UHD Graphics 630
    Memory 16GB (2X8GB) 2666MHz DDR4 UDIMM Non-ECC 16GB 2X8GB DDR4 2666MHz UDIMM Non-ECC Memory
    HDD
    2TB 3.5inch SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM) + 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe Class 40 Solid State Drive
    3.5" 2TB 7200rpm SATA Hard Disk Drive + 3.5 inch 2TB 7200rpm SATA Hard Disk Drive
    Video Card NVIDIA Quadro P400 2GB (3 mDP to DP adapter) NVIDIA Quadro P400, 2GB, 3 mDP to DP adapter
    OS Windows 10 Pro for Workstations (up to 4 Cores) Windows 10 Pro 64bit English, French, Spanish
    Wireless No Wireless LAN Card No Wireless LAN Card
    Optical Drive 8X DVD+/-RW 8x DVD+/-RW 9.5mm Optical Disk Drive
    Chassis Tower chassis with 300W up to 90% efficient PSU (80Plus Gold) no SD card reader v2 Precision 3630 Tower with 300W up to 90% efficient PSU (80Plus Gold) no SD card reader v2


    The second offer below.

    Desktop Original Replacement Offered
    System Model Dell Outlet Precision T3630 Dell Precision T3630
    Processor Intel Core 9th Generation i7-9700K Processor (8 Core, up to 4.90Ghz, 12MB Cache, 95W) Intel Core i7-9700K, 8 Core, 12MB Cache, 3.6Ghz, 4.9 Ghz Turbo w/UHD Graphics 630
    Memory 16GB (2X8GB) 2666MHz DDR4 UDIMM Non-ECC 16GB 2X8GB DDR4 2666MHz UDIMM Non-ECC Memory
    HDD
    2TB 3.5inch SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM) + 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe Class 40 Solid State Drive
    2.5" 1TB SATA Class 20 Solid State Drive + 2.5 inch 2TB 5400rpm SATA Hard Disk Drive
    Video Card NVIDIA Quadro P400 2GB (3 mDP to DP adapter) NVIDIA Quadro P400, 2GB, 3 mDP to DP adapter
    OS Windows 10 Pro for Workstations (up to 4 Cores) Windows 10 Pro 64bit English, French, Spanish
    Wireless No Wireless LAN Card No Wireless LAN Card
    Optical Drive 8X DVD+/-RW 8x DVD+/-RW 9.5mm Optical Disk Drive
    Chassis Tower chassis with 300W up to 90% efficient PSU (80Plus Gold) no SD card reader v2 Precision 3630 Tower with 300W up to 90% efficient PSU (80Plus Gold) no SD card reader v2
    Hard drive config Cable - C5 M.2 SSD + 3.5 1-3 HD C2 2.5 inch Boot HD with optional 1-3 2.5 inch HD

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    12,298
    Just a guess for the change - maybe they discovered that something on the motherboard had problems with SSD and they don't want to admit it.

    I didn't dig thru and help with all the options, but I do prefer SSD drives. I have no HDs but put two 500Gig SSD in my Dell laptop and they are quite fast.

    The extra capacity of the second HD might be nice but it's so easy to add extra capacity today with external drives if needed. I have 3TB, 4TB, and 5TB Western digital external drives I plug into the laptop as needed, both for extra capacity and on rotation for backup redundancy (seamless and painless with Macrium Reflect)

    Does the last line of the second option the cable and space is there for several more internal drives? I don't see that on the first option.

    I assume you have previously determined the video chipset on that machine will play nicely with your 3D modeler.

    JKJ

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    NE OH
    Posts
    2,615
    OK, there are a million fine points that I am blowing by, but to keep this simple:

    You've been offered a mix of storage, conventional rotating storage (the 5400 RPM and 7200 RPM Sata drives), and solid state storage, either Dell Class 20 or Class 40.

    In general, a solid state drive accesses data much faster than a rotating drive. For a windows 10 system, especially one being used for 3D modeling, you want a good bit of solid state storage.

    A Class 40 SSD has better performance than a Class 20 SSD.

    In rotating storage, a 7200 RPM drive can access and transfer data a little faster than a 5400 RPM drive, but the difference is not nearly so much as the difference between rotating and solid state.

    Your original system was 2TB of 7200 rotating and .5TB Class 40 SSD.
    Your second offer is 1 TB of Class 20 SSD and 2 TB of 5400 RPM rotating.

    So they are offering you a little more total storage capacity (3 TB vs 2.5 TB) but all of it is lower performing. That is offset somewhat by having a larger SSD drive which means more of your "stuff" can be on the higher performing drive. It's really hard to know whether this will make a difference in your case; too many variables and unknowns.

    Now for the hard part: will you notice the difference? Maybe, but I doubt it. I think you would be in your rights to press them for the Class 40 SSD; but it would be a real hard choice if it came down to choosing between a 1 TB Class 20 or a .5TB Class 40. I'd probably take the 1 TB Class 20.

    I wouldn't sweat the RPM difference on the rotating drive either way.
    --I had my patience tested. I'm negative--

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    8,973
    I have built my own computers since sometime in the early '90's. Maybe ten years ago, the prices of brand name computers had come down close to the cost of the parts, so when the time came for the next one, I decided to just buy a Dell. Good grief, that was a mistake.

    Windows 10 had been out long enough that I decided to upgrade. That Dell had come with Windows 8. I went to upgrade the BIOS, and couldn't do it. No way to update the OS. Not only that, but it came filled with Bloatware that was impossible to get rid of. It would lock up, and no ordinary effort would work to get it back up. I always had to contact Dell. Their answer was always to wipe the hard drive, and reinstall everything. After about the third time that happened, for just simple stuff that would have taken 10 minutes to clear up with a clean computer, I decided to just toss it, and went back to building clean ones.

    When I was in the middle of that Dell BS, I did some Google searching, and found that it was really common with Dell computers. I doubt I'll ever own another name brand computer. They want to keep their fingers in it Way too much to suit me.

    Good Luck Mark!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Doylestown, PA
    Posts
    7,551
    I've done roll-your-own desktops since dinosaurs roamed the earth (only a slight exaggeration). You're right, it's nice to have control over my computer plus I wonder about the quality of consumer grade machines' components. Some that buy name brand machines - with laptops we don't have a whole lot of choice - replace the hard drive. It's probably smart to do an initial setup so the machine is 'registered' with Microsoft. Remove the included hard drive and replace with a new SSD and a Windows version downloaded from Microsoft. At least that avoids the 3rd party crap and Manufacturer added crap. If warranty service is required reinsert the original hard drive.Once the warranty has expired you could use the original hard drive for backups, additional storage or whatever.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    NE OH
    Posts
    2,615
    Some that buy name brand machines - with laptops we don't have a whole lot of choice - replace the hard drive.
    Many, if not most, of the newer low profile laptops have the SSD integrated on the motherboard. Some can still be swapped out, but it's more complicated than sliding the drive out the side like the older laptops.
    --I had my patience tested. I'm negative--

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    The old pueblo in el norte.
    Posts
    1,844
    A couple thoughts.

    1. I doubt that you're going to see the bus (SATA vs PCIe) as your bottleneck, generally, from what you've stated so far.
    2. SSD is faster, however, it's not really that simple. For example, sequential reads and writes are much faster on a rotational drive. Also, if the OS and applications are stored on the solid state device, and your rotational device is used for file storage the speed difference between the two will likely be unnoticed in use. Although, rotating drives are going to be gone soon enough that even that won't matter anymore anyway.

    With that all said, I haven't costed the difference between the two drives, especially considering that the SATA is twice the size.

    I also kind of find this interesting, as really.. there's not much else (although, it could be a power supply issue now that I think about it).

    Dell sent in a technician to replaced the motherboard, SSD, memory, heat sink and new Operating system. Still wont start.


    Oh, and soldered PCIe storage on laptops is really a function of form factor, more than anything else.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mike stenson View Post
    A couple thoughts.


    2. SSD is faster, however, it's not really that simple. For example, sequential reads and writes are much faster on a rotational drive. Also, if the OS and applications are stored on the solid state device, and your rotational device is used for file storage the speed difference between the two will likely be unnoticed in use. Although, rotating drives are going to be gone soon enough that even that won't matter anymore anyway.
    Is RAID 0 faster than SSD?

    For some time I have run four identical SATA drives in a RAID 0+1 configuration. These drives are only for storage; the OS and applications are on another drive. This configuration was recommended to me for handling large composited photo files and some video. I've wondered if SSD would be an improvement and it sounds like you would know.

    Thanks
    Edwin

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    The old pueblo in el norte.
    Posts
    1,844
    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    Is RAID 0 faster than SSD?

    For some time I have run four identical SATA drives in a RAID 0+1 configuration. These drives are only for storage; the OS and applications are on another drive. This configuration was recommended to me for handling large composited photo files and some video. I've wondered if SSD would be an improvement and it sounds like you would know.

    Thanks
    Edwin
    RAID0 is a data striping method. The reason it's faster is you're throwing more spindles at it (that is, you have multiple drives doing the reading/writing instead of just one). In this case, you'd still see faster throughput for random reads/writes. Which is probably what is ultimately happening in the background. Doing a similar workload (writing NEF and large DMG/TIFF files to disk) my SSD is faster than the previous rotational. But, I'm not running a redundant array, since I'm storing backups in a cloud based solution. I would probably say that when you are looking at storage upgrades, it's time to go SSD.

    Oh, and anymore.. every drive should be hardware encrypted. There's no cost difference really, and the security it provides really is a requirement IMO.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,389
    Thanks for the input everyone.

    I am concerned about the reason why they haven't offered to replace with an identical setup, with the original SSD.

    Another point;
    On the replacements options Dell have downgraded the Operating system from the original Windows 10 Pro Workstation edition to Window 10 Pro. Thats $140 loss in value and a performance drop.

    Prices from Microsoft website
    On my original machine; Windows 10 Pro for Workstations CAD $399.00

    It’s the most powerful Windows yet, with faster data handling and storage, a new file system that finds and repairs faults, and support for the next generation of PC hardware, up to 4 CPUs and 6TB of memory. Best for advanced users and small businesses that want enhanced functionality with the ability to compute intensive workloads.



    Offered on the replacement
    Windows 10 Pro CAD $259.99



    What is my best option?
    Ask them to try and fix my original system again?
    Take one of the replacement offers?
    Ask for another replacement option?
    Take them to court?
    Has anyone had any luck trying to get a refund from Dell?
    My experience so far has not left me with much confidence in either their products or service.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Northern Florida
    Posts
    643
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    ...Dell sent in a technician to replaced the motherboard, SSD, memory, heat sink and new Operating system. Still wont start. After a load of emails and a few weeks they have finally agreed to replace it. With "like or better parts" And it should only take another month to arrive....
    I'm a bit of a Neanderthal in the computer world. My first home-built had 8" floppy drives, used CP/M (pre-pre-pre-Windows) and pre-dated PC's. I gave up Windows for Linux years ago and don't miss it. I'm looking forward to being all solid state someday, but don't really need it. So I won't offer an opinion about the specs allthough it all sounds fairly decent. And my experience with Dell computers has been good and I have a few. However:

    I don't know how you replace the operating system (Windows in this case) on a computer that won't start. Maybe what needs to be replaced is the technician.

    It's not like you're ordering a custom car. Why should it take a month? Are you really dealing with Dell directly? If it must take that long and assuming someone is willing to accept some responsibility and actually help you, they should be able set you up on a loaner and switch you over when the new system arrives, but it sounds strange to me.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    8,973
    You probably have to go into the BIOS, to get it to recognize that monitor, but you can't do anything with the BIOS if you can't see anything on the screen. It probably needs to be started with another monitor. But then, there's the problem of not being able to upgrade the BIOS on Dell computers, unless maybe you get them to do it. Just too many bumps in their road.

  13. #13
    I have a question- Since Mark has stated the original computer never started, how can he notice any difference between the original and the replacement-?
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Mtl, Canada
    Posts
    2,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    I have a question- Since Mark has stated the original computer never started, how can he notice any difference between the original and the replacement-?
    Good question! Maybe Dell can take it back and refund the money? And as a few have mentioned maybe you can buy the parts and assemble your one yourself. Dell don't make it easy sometimes with their proprietary equipment. As for installing Windows its simple...just place the dvd in the drive and start the machine.
    Last edited by Chuck Wintle; 01-26-2020 at 8:47 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    8,973
    If you decide to start from scratch, Newegg has everything you need, and EVGA makes top notch stuff. I had mostly always used ASUS motherboards, but my last build was EVGA, and the difference in quality was astounding.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •