What is the finest Arkansas Stone? Disagreement from the suppliers

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Here are some razor edge pictures by Zowada:

Wow! I am suitably impressed.

[ken hatch]

Here are some razor edge pictures by Zowada:
Translucent Arkansas
Attachment 424394

Shapton 15000
Attachment 424395

Thanks Mickley,

I'll bet the Shapton blade will really shine. Beautiful illustration of the difference between natural stones and man made.

ken

[Marinus Loewensteijn]

Mel, yes, that's how the washita is described in the pamphlet above, a stone to be used by itself for blade maintenance, assuming you didn't have to remove chips or re-bevel. I remember my dad using a double sided 6" fine/coarse carborundum stone for all his sharpening, his chisels were sharp. I don't remember him using natural stones. I also didn't pay attention either, he didn't really teach me, these are boyhood memories of me watching him work. I don't know if he would have cared for all the types of oilstones, he would have been more excited about trying new woods or figuring out how to build a particular piece out of a picture when he came to visit me when he was still around.
Raf

A similar experience here: Dad would grind on a standard 8" bench grinder with a carburendum stone, dipping the blade regularly in some water, and then a Pfeil (Belgian) whetstone to take the burr off.

I've had it all, Veritas Mk I & II guides, diamond and whole series of Shapton and Arkansas stones.

These days I use an old Taiwanese clone of a 10" Tormek (with a natural stone). Then a few strokes on either a Norton 4000/1000 (using an old guide for a bevel) or a Shapton 5000 (freehand) waterstone. Simple, fast and satisfactory.

[Jim Matthews]

I have both a Dan's surgical black and antique Translucent Arkansas (presumably from Norton).

The surgi black makes some finer adjustments, the Transluscent stone hardly makes a noise while honing.

In practice, I use a strop instead.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I took a Stanley 16-150 150 Series Short Blade Wood Chisel to do some tests. Think about a set new that is about $5 each today.

It was mostly sharp, so I started with a set of four Best Sharpening stones.

Step 1: Use the soft. I did not do it long, but, I did do it. It made more of an impact on the front than the back, but, I wanted to see if it would leave marks. It did, you can see them going from up and down in the image below (I should have rotated the image). I did not spend a lot of time on this. The back was already mostly flat.

02_Best_Soft_back_left_right.jpg

It seemed to be that the Best Surgical Black was a less aggressive stone and was better able to cut paper than the translucent stone.

The chisel has a hollow grind and what you see looks like a tiny bevel. In reality, that part before the bevel is part of the hollow grind, is not touched by the stone, so, remember that. Also, the bevel is perhaps larger than normal because the chisel needs a full sharpening cycle. So, here is the Best Surgical Black front.

05_Best_Surgical_back.jpg

The Best Translucent stone was very aggressive. After using the Best translucent stone, the blade cut paper worse than from the Best surgical black.
And now from the Best Translucent.

06_Best_Translucent_front.jpg

On a whim, I used Dan's finest stone (supposedly), the Black.

07_Dans_Black_Front.jpg

This cut paper even better, and I think it left a better edge. The edge looks the same to me in my picture

08_strop_front.jpg

Clearly, however, this chisel cut paper better after the strop.

So, in my inexperienced hands, Dan's Black leaves the best edge from the stones that I own. The Best Translucent, at least in this test, did worse than the Best Surgical Black.

I did strop with compound, and then without. I don't usually use compound, but I usually come off a Shapton 16000.

[ken hatch]

I took a Stanley 16-150 150 Series Short Blade Wood Chisel to do some tests. Think about a set new that is about $5 each today.

It was mostly sharp, so I started with a set of four Best Sharpening stones.

Step 1: Use the soft. I did not do it long, but, I did do it. It made more of an impact on the front than the back, but, I wanted to see if it would leave marks. It did, you can see them going from up and down in the image below (I should have rotated the image). I did not spend a lot of time on this. The back was already mostly flat.



It seemed to be that the Best Surgical Black was a less aggressive stone and was better able to cut paper than the translucent stone.

The chisel has a hollow grind and what you see looks like a tiny bevel. In reality, that part before the bevel is part of the hollow grind, is not touched by the stone, so, remember that. Also, the bevel is perhaps larger than normal because the chisel needs a full sharpening cycle. So, here is the Best Surgical Black front.



The Best Translucent stone was very aggressive. After using the Best translucent stone, the blade cut paper worse than from the Best surgical black.
And now from the Best Translucent.



On a whim, I used Dan's finest stone (supposedly), the Black.



This cut paper even better, and I think it left a better edge. The edge looks the same to me in my picture



Clearly, however, this chisel cut paper better after the strop.

So, in my inexperienced hands, Dan's Black leaves the best edge from the stones that I own. The Best Translucent, at least in this test, did worse than the Best Surgical Black.

I did strop with compound, and then without. I don't usually use compound, but I usually come off a Shapton 16000.

Andrew,

What did you use to take the photos?

ken

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew,

What did you use to take the photos?

ken

Went to Amazon and choose a $23 thing that works with Linux box, my Android phone, etc.


Jiusion Original 40-1000X USB Microscope with Portable Carrying Case, Digital Magnification Endoscope Camera 8 LEDs Metal Base for Micro USB USB-C Android, Windows Mac Linux

Pictures I posted i took with my phone connected to this thing. I can get a link if you like. But cannot hear it now.

[ken hatch]

Went to Amazon and choose a $23 thing that works with Linux box, my Android phone, etc.


Jiusion Original 40-1000X USB Microscope with Portable Carrying Case, Digital Magnification Endoscope Camera 8 LEDs Metal Base for Micro USB USB-C Android, Windows Mac Linux

Pictures I posted i took with my phone connected to this thing. I can get a link if you like. But cannot hear it now.

Andrew,

Thinks, I should be able to find it no need for a link.

ken

[ken hatch]

Andrew,

A couple of questions: Did you feel a burr coming off the soft stone? After working on the polishing stones and removing the burr could you see reflected light on the cutting edge? The reason I ask is from looking at the photos there are a couple of spots that look like they should reflect light. But then I'm not use to looking at an edge at that magnification level.

ken

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew,

A couple of questions: Did you feel a burr coming off the soft stone? After working on the polishing stones and removing the burr could you see reflected light on the cutting edge? The reason I ask is from looking at the photos there are a couple of spots that look like they should reflect light. But then I'm not use to looking at an edge at that magnification level.

ken

Not a lot of shiny stuff going on off the soft stone, things are very hazy. In fact, i do not see a lot of shine off my Arkansas stones in general. I do off my water stones, but no so much off the Arkansas stones. As soon as they touched the Arkansas stones, the mirror was gone. I cannot say that I spent much time looking for a mirror after that so I was also not specifically looking for it. And I surely did not expect it from the soft stone.

Andrew

[Rafael Herrera]

Andrew, I think Ken is referring to light shining off of the very edge of the tool, not the back or front bevel. I think the reason is that seeing a shine at the very edge is an indicator of no having achieved a sharp edge.
Raf

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew, I think Ken is referring to light shining off of the very edge of the tool, not the back or front bevel. I think the reason is that seeing a shine at the very edge is an indicator of no having achieved a sharp edge.
Raf

Oh, of course. I don't remember and I was not looking for it. :-(

[ken hatch]

Andrew, I think Ken is referring to light shining off of the very edge of the tool, not the back or front bevel. I think the reason is that seeing a shine at the very edge is an indicator of no having achieved a sharp edge.
Raf

Rafael,

You are correct, there were a couple of spots that looked as if they would reflect light.

ken

[ken hatch]

Not a lot of shiny stuff going on off the soft stone, things are very hazy. In fact, i do not see a lot of shine off my Arkansas stones in general. I do off my water stones, but no so much off the Arkansas stones. As soon as they touched the Arkansas stones, the mirror was gone. I cannot say that I spent much time looking for a mirror after that so I was also not specifically looking for it. And I surely did not expect it from the soft stone.

Andrew

Andrew,

Most natural stones will not shine like a synthetic stone.I think because of the shape of the scratches from each. Just remember shiny is not necessarily sharp. Shiny may look pretty but that is about it.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

Just remember shiny is not necessarily sharp. Shiny may look pretty but that is about it.

A cylinder can be shiny but it won't cut very well.

jtk