What is the finest Arkansas Stone? Disagreement from the suppliers

[Tom M King]

Andrew, Thanks for finding that microscope. I just ordered a slightly different one that works with an iPhone. They have a number of different variations that work with different phones, and such. I copied and pasted the item title, but it may be transferred as a link. I didn't intend for it to be a link. I know they're funny about links on these particular forums. Hopefully, this is not a link, and if it's not, just copy and paste it in the search box at Amazon.

Jiusion WiFi USB Digital Handheld Microscope, 40 to 1000x Wireless Magnification Endoscope 8 LED Mini Camera with Phone Suction, Metal Stand and Case, Compatible with iPhone iPad Mac Window Android

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew, Thanks for finding that microscope. I just ordered a slightly different one that works with an iPhone. They have a number of different variations that work with different phones, and such. I copied and pasted the item title, but it may be transferred as a link. I didn't intend for it to be a link. I know they're funny about links on these particular forums. Hopefully, this is not a link, and if it's not, just copy and paste it in the search box at Amazon.

Jiusion WiFi USB Digital Handheld Microscope, 40 to 1000x Wireless Magnification Endoscope 8 LED Mini Camera with Phone Suction, Metal Stand and Case, Compatible with iPhone iPad Mac Window Android

Nice, that one comes with a "wifi box" of some sort.

[JohnM Martin]

just glad to see others using Arkansas stones.

[ken hatch]

just glad to see others using Arkansas stones.

John,

I could be wrong (which I often am) but I think folks that like to have the finest edge they can get tent to gravitate to natural stones. Either Ark, JNat, or both.

ken

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Then a few strokes on either a Norton 4000/1000 (using an old guide for a bevel) or a Shapton 5000 (freehand) waterstone. Simple, fast and satisfactory.

TheShapton 5000 does not get a lot of Love, but it has worked for me..... of course, I do not have anything similar to compare it to.

[Tom M King]

John,

I could be wrong (which I often am) but I think folks that like to have the finest edge they can get tent to gravitate to natural stones. Either Ark, JNat, or both.

ken

Not me. I use both depending on the circumstances. If we are somewhere long term, where I can set up my sink, waterstones get the call. Somewhere without running water, or short job, oilstones get the call. I like the sharpest edge I can get quickly. Waterstones are quicker, but not if you have to work up a slurry, and not if they're not sitting out ready to go to work. The sharpening sink is my top preference.

[Marinus Loewensteijn]

Not me. I use both depending on the circumstances. If we are somewhere long term, where I can set up my sink, waterstones get the call. Somewhere without running water, or short job, oilstones get the call. I like the sharpest edge I can get quickly. Waterstones are quicker, but not if you have to work up a slurry, and not if they're not sitting out ready to go to work. The sharpening sink is my top preference.

An alternative when using a natural stone is lubricating with some liquid dishwashing soap and some water. No soaking or building up a sludge required. (but that is only when never oil has been used) A bit of spit may be sufficient for a final hone.

[Haitham Jaber]

I wanted to revive this thread sharing some important feedback I received from Kim Kirschman of Dan's Whetstone

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My Email to them

Hello,

Even if you have a page on the subject I was reading this page here:
https://www.bestsharpeningstones.com...0finer%20still.



Here they say the opposite of you and consider the translucent effectively finer then the black.
I'm going to spend my money on a wide Translucent and use it also as a straight razor's overall stone. I want it for honing and polishing than i will go to the strop. Should I need a translucent or a black?


Thank you

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Dan's (Kim) reply

Dear Haitham Jaber –

Good morning. We are in receipt of your email regarding the comparison of the Translucent Arkansas vs the Black Arkansas (ultra fine) stone.

Thank you for sharing the information from Best Sharpening on the Arkansas stones.

First, I wanted to share with you that it has been my experience that each company in the industry has their own methods and ways of evaluating and setting the standards for the products they market. Best Sharpening is a dealer of a variety of natural stone products and not a manufacture of the products. They were a customer of Dan’s Whetstone Company but has not purchased from us in several years. They have been purchasing their products from other companies. So, it can be difficult to compare the standards from one company to another.

Dan’s Whetstone Company Inc. is a complete manufacture of the natural stone products. We quarry the raw material out of the ground, then hand cut and finish each stone. We then package it and ship it all over the USA and the world. All of our natural stones are genuine Novaculite sharpening stones. The novaculite is 99.9% pure silica.... a quartz formation. We have been working with the novaculite for over 40 years.

The Black Arkansas (ultra fine) is the finest stone that we manufacture. It is slightly finer than the Translucent Arkansas (extra fine). It has a very smooth almost glassy feel to the stone. This stone has traditionally been known as a razor hone. It will help to achieve a keen razor-sharp edge on your straight razor.

The Translucent Arkansas (extra fine) stone is slightly more aggressive than the Black Arkansas. This stone can be a uniform light grey to darker grey color stone. It also has a smooth texture to the stone. The Translucent Arkansas will also help you achieve a keen razor-sharp edge on your straight razor. The Translucent Arkansas (extra fine) is higher in cost in comparison to the Black Arkansas because we encounter more natural variations in this material such as cracks, pin holes, that make it a more labor intensive to work with. We do not get the yield in cut stones in the Translucent that we can achieve in the Black Arkansas. The Black Arkansas stone will tend to cut slower than Translucent, but we get more cut products out of this material.

All of the genuine Novaculite stones that we manufacture – Soft Arkansas (medium) – Hard Arkansas (fine) Black Arkansas (ultra fine) Translucent Arkansas (extra fine) – are considered polishing stones. When sharpening with these stones – you are doing the honing and polishing all at the same time. The novaculite stones do not take away a lot of metal fast. If you have to re-establish an angle on a blade – we recommend using a man-made stone to do this. The general progression of sharpening generally will go Soft Arkansas (medium) – Hard Arkansas (fine) – Translucent Arkansas (extra fine) and then the final step would be the Black Arkansas (ultra-fine).

You can use either the Black Arkansas or the Translucent Arkansas for your straight razor sharpening. We do not feel that it is necessary to get both stones. Some individuals think that it is necessary but for us – either one would work for this. I do know from personal experience that the Black Arkansas stone can put a very sharp edge on a straight razor. We had a customer come that is very much into sharpening straight razors on a variety of stones. He demonstrated for us how he did his sharpening and when he did the final sharpening – he used the Black Arkansas stone and sharpened the blade. Then took a single piece of hair and held it between his fingertips and sliced that hair in half barely touching it with the blade. Another customer uses our Black Arkansas to sharpen very precision scalp blades and they are amazing sharp.

I also wanted to let you know that to be cautious in comparing some of the Black Arkansas stones out on the market. To our knowledge there are companies that are manufacturing and selling Black Arkansas stones that are not genuine novaculite stone products. The stone is Black in color and it does come from Arkansas but it is not novaculite. It is a softer material that does not perform the same as the genuine Black Arkansas novaculite stone that we manufacture. So we would like to caution individuals when do comparison especially in pricing and the grade of stones.

Thank you for your inquiry.

[Rafael Herrera]

Where the stones are quarried and selected for grade is what ultimately counts for the abrasive quality of a stone for sharpening. Pick a vendor you are willing to trust, ask them questions, and make a selection.

The deposits of Novaculite span hundreds of miles and are hundreds of feet thick. Not all the quarries yield useful sharpening stones. This was known even in the 19th century. Who you get your stones from and how good of a job they do in grading them is most important in getting a good product.

[Jim Koepke]

I have a chunk of translucent Arkansas that is much smoother than any of the other translucent stones in my accumulation.

Black, Translucent Slip & Trans Chunk.jpg

The "chunk" at the top right was purchased at a gem & mineral show for $1. The chunk rivals my Dan's Whetstones Black Arkansas. The translucent slip stone is more aggressive than the chunk.

The chunk is only smooth on two or three faces where it was cut by a diamond saw. The rest of it is natural. The black is easier to use for polishing as the chunk has to be held in hand to be used.

I have considered buying a large translucent from Dan's but just haven't pulled the trigger.

In the past I have used some jasper stones. They are as hard as an Arkansas stone and also make good polishing stones but are often more likely to have flaws. If there is a lapidary supply shop in your area, you might want to check them out to see if they can supply a smooth cut hunk of jasper.

jtk

[Haitham Jaber]

Hi Jim,

I'm just about to pull the trigger for a wide one. I've already asked this question in the forum but I would like
to know your take on this.
If it was you, would you buy the 10 or 12 long? Do you think the 12 would serve you in some situations?

Thank you
Haitham

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Jim,

I'm just about to pull the trigger for a wide one. I've already asked this question in the forum but I would like
to know your take on this.
If it was you, would you buy the 10 or 12 long? Do you think the 12 would serve you in some situations?

Thank you
Haitham

I think the longer stones would be good if a person uses a guide. I hone freehand so an 8" works fine for me. I do have some 10" stones. Bigger stones do take up more space. They are also a bit cumbersome to handle when space is tight.

A good thing about a long stone is you may not get all the way to the end so as part of the stone becomes smooth from use there is still some rough area at the ends.

jtk

[Haitham Jaber]

I think the longer stones would be good if a person uses a guide. I hone freehand so an 8" works fine for me. I do have some 10" stones. Bigger stones do take up more space. They are also a bit cumbersome to handle when space is tight.

A good thing about a long stone is you may not get all the way to the end so as part of the stone becomes smooth from use there is still some rough area at the ends.

jtk

Thank you Jim for you advice.

Regards,
Haitham

[John C Cox]

One thing I run into with knife vs razor hones is that often knife users prize slicing aggression. This means the blade grabs and cuts deeply when using a slicing pull-through motion. Often, good knife stones may be a little "scratchy" to leave a fine but slightly micro-serrated edge.

Razors and woodworking tools generally prize push cuts. Instead of slicing across, we push the edge directly in. In this case, we often don't want that micro-serration, as it leaves lines and can produce weak spots on the edge. As such, we generally don't want a stone that is "scratchy."

Horses for courses, and one of the reasons we often love synthetic stones with very uniform grading where the knife guys often prefer natural stones.

[Haitham Jaber]

One thing I run into with knife vs razor hones is that often knife users prize slicing aggression. This means the blade grabs and cuts deeply when using a slicing pull-through motion. Often, good knife stones may be a little "scratchy" to leave a fine but slightly micro-serrated edge.

Razors and woodworking tools generally prize push cuts. Instead of slicing across, we push the edge directly in. In this case, we often don't want that micro-serration, as it leaves lines and can produce weak spots on the edge. As such, we generally don't want a stone that is "scratchy."

Horses for courses, and one of the reasons we often love synthetic stones with very uniform grading where the knife guys often prefer natural stones.

Interesting, never thought about not smooth stones leaving serrations. Anyway a valuable translucent is perfectly smooth. One can still use one side for razor and the other for knives and gouges.

If Rambo would read this, he would laugh. He would shave with a serrated knife.