New Chisel Prep

[ken hatch]

Ken,

We still have first aid kits lying around from the last 5 years of marching band (and I know where they are )! It's always the middle finger on my left hand for me. I'm down to one item left in the 'shed' (other than bicycles, but the rats don't seem to care about them.. and they're hanging anyway). Unfortunately it's the box they're living in it seems. I'm not really looking forward to moving it and having a family of rats fight back, so last night I helped a friend replace brakes on his truck. Seemed a more sane thing to do, while I contemplate chemical warfare. If you hear about someone on the NW side using chlorine gas, it's probably me.

While all of that is serious, I'm hoping to finish getting everything out of there this weekend and tear down that outer wall. That'll leave it without anywhere to hide, and I can start cleaning.

Mike,

I have a few "live traps" and would be happy to loan you one. They work great with peanut butter dog treats as bait. Put the trap out until you stop catching rats, then rat proof. That is what Mr. Pack Rat does. Of course Mr. Pack Rat drowns the ones they catch, I take 'em a couple of miles out into the desert and turn 'em loose. Of course I expect the outcome for the rats is about the same for either way.

ken

[mike stenson]

Mike,

I have a few "live traps" and would be happy to loan you one. They work great with peanut butter dog treats as bait. Put the trap out until you stop catching rats, then rat proof. That is what Mr. Pack Rat does. Of course Mr. Pack Rat drowns the ones they catch, I take 'em a couple of miles out into the desert and turn 'em loose. Of course I expect the outcome for the rats is about the same for either way.

ken

I may take you up on that. I've got one, and I also killed the last one I caught (evidently I do not 'have a heart') I'll have problems though, until I get rid of these adobe piles.

[Phil Mueller]

There’s a video by Steve Latta, I think on the LN website, demonstrating how to sharpen the pointed cutting tool of his radius inlay tool. One thing that stuck with me that he said in the video is that light will not reflect from a sharp point....if you see light reflecting, it’s not sharp. I sort of follow this rule, but it just seems to me if it will do the task, it’s sharp.

I think after a while you get to know if you have to pound or push too hard it needs a honing.

However you get there, I must say, that sound of a paring chisel or smoothing plane taking off a few thousands of some wood, leaving a smooth finish with very little effort is pretty special.

[Derek Cohen]

I've started prepping the new chisels from Stan. I've never found a way to do it that didn't just take pulling up your big boy pants and take iron to stone and do the scut work. I wish there were an easier way, if there is I haven't found it. What this really got me to thinking about is the sharpening process and how to tell if a cutter is sharp ..........

ken

Ken, have you tried placing your chisels under a pyramid? Chanting is optional.

Yes, there are no short cuts. I don’t buy into “I just know when it’s sharp ... I can feel it in my waters”.

Experienced sharpeners recognise two factors: the first is that sharp requires that there is no light or roundedness at the very edge of the blade. A wire lets you know when the primary face has reached the back side. No sharp without this. To achieve this efficiently, always start the process with the coarsest stone. There is a balance to be achieved here: too coarse and you create deeper scratches which then require extra effort to remove.

The second factor is that you need to end the process with the smoothest possible surface. Smoother = sharper. As with grinding, ‘polishing’ is a compromise of cost/effort vs result. There is a point of diminishing returns. That is a personal decision.

When starting on the back of a new blade (other than a Veritas or LN), such as the Stan Chisels, I would run it over a finer media to see if there are high/low spots. Then I would choose the media coarseness to suit how much steel needs to be removed. Diamond plates are good here.

I would estimate that about 75% of the time is spent on the coarsest stone. Do not jump stones as you will wind up returning and re-doing the work.

How do I know when the blade is ready? Most importantly, I went through the complete routine, beginning with the most important stage, the first stage ... creating a wire edge. I always feel for this. Then I move on until all scratches cannot be seen, and through every media used feel for the wire. It should get smaller and smaller. Finally, a rub on green compound/hardwood to ensure that the wire is gone. Knowing that this has been done gives me the confidence that the edge is sharp.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[fritz eng]

IMHO, the most important first step is to make the back of the chisel absolute FLAT, just the first 3/4" or so

[ken hatch]

Ken, have you tried placing your chisels under a pyramid? Chanting is optional.

Yes, there are no short cuts. I don’t buy into “I just know when it’s sharp ... I can feel it in my waters”.

Experienced sharpeners recognise two factors: the first is that sharp requires that there is no light or roundedness at the very edge of the blade. A wire lets you know when the primary face has reached the back side. No sharp without this. To achieve this efficiently, always start the process with the coarsest stone. There is a balance to be achieved here: too coarse and you create deeper scratches which then require extra effort to remove.

The second factor is that you need to end the process with the smoothest possible surface. Smoother = sharper. As with grinding, ‘polishing’ is a compromise of cost/effort vs result. There is a point of diminishing returns. That is a personal decision.

When starting on the back of a new blade (other than a Veritas or LN), such as the Stan Chisels, I would run it over a finer media to see if there are high/low spots. Then I would choose the media coarseness to suit how much steel needs to be removed. Diamond plates are good here.

I would estimate that about 75% of the time is spent on the coarsest stone. Do not jump stones as you will wind up returning and re-doing the work.

How do I know when the blade is ready? Most importantly, I went through the complete routine, beginning with the most important stage, the first stage ... creating a wire edge. I always feel for this. Then I move on until all scratches cannot be seen, and through every media used feel for the wire. It should get smaller and smaller. Finally, a rub on green compound/hardwood to ensure that the wire is gone. Knowing that this has been done gives me the confidence that the edge is sharp.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I'll have to try the pyramid but I question the dancing neked part .

Our processes are essentially the same but one thing I know, if someone came up with a machine that would work I'd whip out my AmEX so fast it would leave burn marks.

BTW, good short and concise tutoral.

ken

[ken hatch]

There’s a video by Steve Latta, I think on the LN website, demonstrating how to sharpen the pointed cutting tool of his radius inlay tool. One thing that stuck with me that he said in the video is that light will not reflect from a sharp point....if you see light reflecting, it’s not sharp. I sort of follow this rule, but it just seems to me if it will do the task, it’s sharp.

I think after a while you get to know if you have to pound or push too hard it needs a honing.

However you get there, I must say, that sound of a paring chisel or smoothing plane taking off a few thousands of some wood, leaving a smooth finish with very little effort is pretty special.

Phil,

Yep, that is a good part of the see sharp.

ken

[ken hatch]

I may take you up on that. I've got one, and I also killed the last one I caught (evidently I do not 'have a heart') I'll have problems though, until I get rid of these adobe piles.

Mike,

Beautiful location, but damn, like my place Pack Rat Heaven. I just hope you don't run 'em out of the adobe and into the car.

The rats don't know it but we have reached a truce, if they stay below the pool, at the bottom of the gully, I'll leave 'em be. Come up to the back garden level they will be caught and sent packing.

ken

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,

I'll have to try the pyramid but I question the dancing neked part .

Our processes are essentially the same but one thing I know, if someone came up with a machine that would work I'd whip out my AmEX so fast it would leave burn marks.

BTW, good short and concise tutoral.

ken

Ken, the naked dancing is the important bit!

I have not used one, but with machines in mind, I wonder how a Worksharp 3000 or Lee Valley Mk ll power Sharpening System, with a foot switch, would work?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

Ken, the naked dancing is the important bit!

I have not used one, but with machines in mind, I wonder how a Worksharp 3000 or Lee Valley Mk ll power Sharpening System, with a foot switch, would work?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I was afraid of that .

I tried a Worksharp several years ago to mixed results and gave it away to a friend along with a bunch of disks and all the accessories. Ir basically came down to something that works for the person that does not know how to sharpen well and is willing to limit their tools to ones that work with the machine. It has its place but not in my shop. I had hopes it would prep the backs of cutters but was way too easy to screw one up.

Waiting for my thumb to heal up enough to go back to chisel prep,

ken

[mike stenson]

When starting on the back of a new blade (other than a Veritas or LN), such as the Stan Chisels, I would run it over a finer media to see if there are high/low spots. Then I would choose the media coarseness to suit how much steel needs to be removed. Diamond plates are good here.

I had one (an Irwin branded 'Marples' 1 1/4") this weekend that I gave up on the diamond plate (200 grit) and went straight to a lapping plate and 80grit aluminum oxide. It's too bad I can't justify a surface grinder, I really dislike flattening the backs.

[Winston Chang]

I've found a couple of things to be educational:

* Looking at the edge with a 30x loupe.
* Testing by pushing the blade straight into the edge of a piece of printer paper. If I can do this perpendicular to the grain of the paper with no skewing of the blade and no slicing motion, I consider that really sharp. There are some gradations even with this test -- with a really, really sharp blade, it's noticeably easier to do this, but for most purposes, that level of sharpness isn't necessary. If the blade cuts across the paper grain with a bit of tearing, that's not quite as sharp. If it can only cleanly cut along the grain of the paper, that's also a lower level of sharpness. If you need to skew the blade or use a slicing motion, that's a lower level still.

The paper test has taught me some things. For example, stropping a few times on a plain leather strop provides a noticeable improvement. Since the time and effort of stropping is low, I do it. Another good thing about the paper test is that it's (somewhat) objective and easy to communicate -- you can easily explain it to someone else and they'll understand what to look for. Often people will say things like a blade is "shaving sharp," but that's very subjective. I don't claim that the paper test is a perfect proxy for real-world performance of a blade, but it's simple, and better than nothing.

After putting together what I've seen through the magnifier, the results I get from the paper test, and real-world performance of my tools, I find that I don't usually use the magnifier or paper test. Now when I sharpen my tools, I know what to look for in the blade edge without any extra aids. But those aids are still useful when dealing with a new-to-me blade.

[Bill Carey]

Ken, the naked dancing is the important bit!

I have not used one, but with machines in mind, I wonder how a Worksharp 3000 or Lee Valley Mk ll power Sharpening System, with a foot switch, would work?

Regards from Perth

Derek

An old compass plane, a 42 buck Caliastro #4, and a Worksharp 3000:
20190625_113350.jpg 20190625_113329.jpg 20190813_105503.jpg

When you reach a point where the tool is sharp enough to do the job well, what do you gain by continuing to sharpen? And I'm not being a smart ass, just curious what benefits are reaped by trying to sharpen something past the point where it readily accomplishes the task at hand.

[Winston Chang]

A few months ago when I was at my local Woodcraft, I mentioned what a pain it was to flatten the backs of some new chisels. The hand tool expert there said that they do it as a service for a very reasonable price, but I declined because I didn't want to make him do the tedious work. He also said that they were soon going to get a diamond wheel for their Tormek, which has a flat side that would make very quick work of the back prep. If I had new chisels that needed a lot of work, I'd definitely consider bringing them in.

YMMV, of course. I find that the people that work at this store, and this one guy in particular, are very knowledgeable, and I'd trust them to do a good job or tell me if they couldn't. I wouldn't trust just anyone with a Tormek to do it.

[mike stenson]

A few months ago when I was at my local Woodcraft, I mentioned what a pain it was to flatten the backs of some new chisels. The hand tool expert there said that they do it as a service for a very reasonable price, but I declined because I didn't want to make him do the tedious work. He also said that they were soon going to get a diamond wheel for their Tormek, which has a flat side that would make very quick work of the back prep. If I had new chisels that needed a lot of work, I'd definitely consider bringing them in.

YMMV, of course. I find that the people that work at this store, and this one guy in particular, are very knowledgeable, and I'd trust them to do a good job or tell me if they couldn't. I wouldn't trust just anyone with a Tormek to do it.

I find this really awkward on my Tormek, but I don't have a diamond wheel.. so I do not know how fast the action is with one.