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Thread: Large jointer planer combo tables not flat, looking for suggestions

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Josh vincze View Post
    Thank you Darcy. I do believe that it's a casting problem combined with being blanchard ground. At a 6k price tag maybe I'm asking to much. I just wish that the company would set expectations better. If I knew the second machine was going to be a repeat I probably would have saved everyone a lot of time and money.
    At this point I am very reluctant to return both of them. I would like to think that all of my time, effort and money will produce something.

    I tried for years to get something used of quality for reasonable price in the South Carolina area with no success.
    It's really a sum of all parts, poor casting seasoning, machining still warm castings, a worn blanchard grinder sucking the table down to the mag chuck that is worn, poor set up, etc. Too hard to pin down the exact reasons, but for sure it's a combination of some or all.

  2. #17
    I have more experience with adjusting jointers than I really deserve and I can tell you that it helps to be patient. Given the numbers you have provided, I would put your concerns about table flatness on the back burner for now (not saying you are wrong, just saying that those numbers may not be a show stopper) and move on to dialing the machine in. I was in a similar position when I took delivery of a Minimax 16" J/P a year or two ago, and decided to invest in a Starrett 72" precision straight edge. I read all that I could about the mechanics of measuring and adjusting, and I dove in. You may be surprised at how well you can get the machine set up. I do think its a shame that even these multi-thousand dollar machines do not necessarily come to your door ready to work and are frequently in need of hours of careful setup.

  3. #18
    Phil that is a painful reality that is slowly setting in. I spent hours dialing in my old 8" jet which eventually produced results that I was very happy with. I hoped with an extra 3-4k that was behind me. I guess I'm really just paying for the extra width and helical head. Can I borrow your 72" starrett.🙂

  4. #19
    Josh, maybe I missed it, but what are the table dimensions?

    And, do I understand correctly that your drawing is showing the maximum "dip" you can measure between the table and a straightedge in a given line?

    It may be more instructive to consider a "topographical" map of the tables. If you have a 0.013" dip that spans the majority of the infeed (or, to put it another way: if the start and end of the infeed are noticeably higher than the middle), that would be very worrying. But if it's a 0.013" dip that's ~2"x2" near the front edge...well, that probably doesn't matter.

    Another thing to consider: what tolerance would be acceptable to you?

  5. #20
    My best jointer was my first, a 6" Jet: perfect out of the box. I "upgraded" to an 8" DJ 20: that is where I got all kinds of experience dialing in jointers. To confirm that I am a glutton for punishment, I voluntarily chose to "upgrade" a second time to a 16" J/P. Sometimes I wonder who is enjoying that Jet 6" machine. It is great to have the 16" width and helical head on both the jointer and planer. I now have my machine running well, but not perfect. Perhaps the jointer gods will smile on me one day and I will achieve the 100% dial-in that seems more precious than the holy grail

    I should mention that if you were in my neighborhood, I'd be happy to supply the Starrett and all my hard earned experience to help you out.
    Last edited by Phil Gaudio; 01-20-2020 at 6:38 PM.

  6. #21
    Definitely a dip. I went side to side under the straight edge incrementally increasing the gauge of the feeler gauge until the low point could be determined.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    As mentioned earlier, can you joint a straight edge? If you can't then there is reason to look into why. If you can, nothing else matters.

    John
    For the most part I agree with this. I don't play it quite as loose as some others. If your jointer, or planer yield an error that will multiply as you build your piece and end up with a 1/64" gap at a joinery intersection, its a problem. Sliding dovetails won't, air tight miters aren't and so forth. If your finishing protocol involves 12 mil of plastic spray as a top coat, you have no problem; it will hide almost anything.

    My point being, as some have mentioned, we can get caught up on the numbers and try to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Make some small and intricate boxes. these are quick, use little material and involve the same joinery as a lot of larger pieces. If any problems present on a piece that is 5 x 7 x 12 inches it will be hell trying to assembly a hallway table. Make sense?
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny means View Post
    Stop measuring and cut some wood. I've never set up or checked any machine beyond what a couple of levels and a and a machinist square can do. Too much time on these forums will have you trying to split an atom.
    Like this. Properly set up machines make joinery easier & better ... to a point. Where is the point of diminishing returns? What's the question.

  9. #24
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    I wonder how flat they would stay even if they were re-machined.

  10. #25
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    Hi josh, if you joint 2 pieces about 4 feet long and put them edge to edge, what gap do you get?

    If you get a small gap in the center only ( ends of the pieces touch) that is as far as I go on adjusting a jointer.

    If you get perfectly straight to a small center gap ( for sake of argument let's say 0.010") that would satisfy my expectations.

    I wouldn't measure table flatness unless you cannot achieve a suitable joint................Regards, Rod.

  11. #26
    I believe when jointer tables are not flat there is a point of diminishing return with the number of passes you do. The greater the tables are bowed, cupped, dipping and twisting the more your return quality diminishes. Yes, even when tables are not perfect a person can get adequate results and know when to stop to begin dimensioning the other sides. I thought spending 6k would limit this law.
    There are a multitude of reasons that someone would want to take multiple passes past the point of "flat" making coplanar, flat and inline with the cutterhead important.
    Rod, I truly do appreciate your reply. Your reply really got me thinking. I now believe jointing short boards are going to be my real problem and not the 7' + I'm used to for doors and gates.
    Please don't take this as malicious in anyway but yes I can get decent results. I can also frame a really nice house with a handsaw.

  12. #27
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    Hi Josh, thanks for the kind words.

    I would try the jointer out and see what the results look like.

    If it produces accurate enough work I would leave it at that.

    As a technologist I have a bad habit of chasing things down the proverbial rabbit hole, normally to no good effect

    Regards, Rod.

  13. #28
    I feel you pain. I purchased a MM jointer/planer years ago and discovered both tables were not flat, similar to yours. MM was not interested in solving the problem, so after months of trying to adjust the machine, I finally hired a machine adjuster referred by MM. He came out and did the best he could, but still, I could not get the machine to joint a proper edge. So, the machine sat unused for about 5 years. I finally had the itch, so I took the tables off and had them machined properly to within .005". I've been using the J/P with good success for a few years now, but I had to pay an additional $800 for machining.
    The moral is, you can adjust the heck out of your machines, but your always going to have issues either with short boards or long boards, depending on where they hit the dips. If you have the option, I'd send back the machines now, before you get stuck with one of them like I did. There are too many good makers of machines out there that will work with you to make sure you get a good one. Don't do as I did.

  14. #29
    Derek, did your tables stay flat after grinding? I really don't won't to return both of them because of the effort that takes. This is my personal shop and it's in my backyard.

  15. #30
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    That’s a shame, I have checked mine and another friend’s Minimax machines and anywhere on the table I can trap a .001” feeler gauge.

    I have a Jet cast iron router table, all of those type of tables looked like they were out if the same factory. The table has about a .012” crown to it, it’s offensively out of flat to me. Called the company and they told me it’s acceptable based on their tolerances. ‘Good enough for woodworking’ is the comment that stood out.

    It’s not any harder to grind something flat than it is to grind something out if flat, it’s just that ‘good enough woodworking’ gives certain manufacturers the excuse to pass off stuff that should be reworked.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

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