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Thread: Large jointer planer combo tables not flat, looking for suggestions

  1. #1

    Large jointer planer combo tables not flat, looking for suggestions

    So far the company I purchase the jp combo off of has been extremely accommodating and for that reason I care not to mention their name. I purchased the tool about a year ago and quickly brought to their attention that the tables where not flat. With a little effort on my part within a couple of days they agreed to send me a new machine and promised to thoroughly check it before it arrived at my shop. Now I have two machines that I find far from acceptable when it comes to the tables being flat never mind coplanarity table to table or table to cutter head. Please see my attached picture and confirm or dismiss my concerns. Are there any techniques that I can use while jointing to produce a high quality product with in of these machines? I expect to be able to straighten/flatten a 10' board within a 32nd. Is all hope loss?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    How many thousandths of an inch are they away from being flat? (I can't see the picture, sorry)

    My 16"x47" jointer beds have around 0.002-0.003" dip in the middle going left to right. However, with them dialed in, I can get a perfect seam (under 0.001", infact I can't even measure it with my machinist feeler gauges) across 6' boards. Haven't really jointed anything longer in a while. Now, if they go out of alignment by just a few thousandths of an inch, or if the outfeed drops a thousandth or two below where it needs to be, I'll get a gap in those same 6' boards of maybe 1/64".

    As long the beds are within tolerance of most manufacturers (I think most are 0.010") you should be able to get a good seam, but it's VERY MUCH in how well you set everything up, as far as alignment. And don't neglect the importance of having an outfeed table perfectly parallel with the knives. Your beds can be set to NASA-level precision as far as coplanarity, but if the outfeed isn't perfect with the cutterhead, you'll never get a good seam. Vice-versa too. That's all from my experience at least.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Josh I have no idea where to even start trying to help . I think if you want help from anyone who knows anything about your machine you will first have to identify it. Do I understand you correctly that you now have two of the same machine and neither of them is acceptable to you ? There must be some measure of adjustability in the tables of these machines,but there is no way for any advice to help you if you can not tell us what the machine even is. Good luck.

  4. #4
    Stop measuring and cut some wood. I've never set up or checked any machine beyond what a couple of levels and a and a machinist square can do. Too much time on these forums will have you trying to split an atom.

  5. #5
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    A few things, first, what are you taking measurements with? Is this a certified straight edge? Next, and maybe more important, but what are the manufacturer's specs? This came up somewhat recently in the FOG with a guy who just received a new AD941. He was pretty miffed at spending $10K+ and the machine being out .002" over 16". I think Felder's spec was about that, which isnt 'perfect', but still pretty precise when it comes to woodworking. Next, what are the dimensions of the tables? In your one diagram, i see .003" over the length of the table, which i assume means it has a .003" dip or hump across the length. If your tables are 48" long, then that is really not bad at all. I think my starrett straight edges are only guaranteed at .001" per 12". Anyway, post your method for measuring the bed errors, size of the beds, and maybe look up the manufacturer;s spec.

  6. #6
    Sorry my picture doesn't seem to be helping anyone. On the outfeed table of the new machine they supposedly checked I am confident within .002" that their is a .013" dip on the diagonal. I am using a certified straight edge with feeler gauges.
    The older machine has a similar dip of .01 on the diagonal of the outfeed as well.
    Yes, the machines are the same and I'm holding on to both of them until problem is resolved.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    My suggestion is to return both machines.
    Start a quest for a use jointer. Buy a 36 inch groz straight edge to take with you so you can inspect the tables before you buy it.
    Even if it takes a year or more looking at a half dozen machines.
    Heres what the groz straight edge I have.
    Good Luck
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Aj

  8. #8
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    As mentioned earlier, can you joint a straight edge? If you can't then there is reason to look into why. If you can, nothing else matters.

    John

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hughes View Post
    My suggestion is to return both machines.
    Start a quest for a use jointer. Buy a 36 inch groz straight edge to take with you so you can inspect the tables before you buy it.
    Even if it takes a year or more looking at a half dozen machines.
    Heres what the groz straight edge I have.
    Good Luck
    Time is our most precious resource.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Josh vincze View Post
    Sorry my picture doesn't seem to be helping anyone. On the outfeed table of the new machine they supposedly checked I am confident within .002" that their is a .013" dip on the diagonal. I am using a certified straight edge with feeler gauges.
    The older machine has a similar dip of .01 on the diagonal of the outfeed as well.
    Yes, the machines are the same and I'm holding on to both of them until problem is resolved.
    Just my opinion, anything over 0.01" on the jointer bed and I'd look at getting something else. Seems like that would be outside of even Grizzly's specs. The fact that they were willing to send you an entirely new machine, seems to kind of confirm that with me. Perhaps you just got bad luck of the draw on the second one too. This is largely the reason a lot of us (including me) buy machines used, because we can check for this beforehand.

  11. #11
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    Not sure how much tighter the tolerances will be on any other machine. I believe NF calls for a .003 to .005 on their tables, which are cored and well seasoned before machining.

    It's a basic combination of poor casting practices and whatever they can hold on the machining side (probably blanchard ground I would guess)
    Last edited by Darcy Warner; 01-20-2020 at 5:00 PM.

  12. #12
    Flattening a 10' board within 1/32" seems a little unreasonable to me. Have you ever worked lumber at that scale? 7000ths on your jointer bed would be pretty inconsequential.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh vincze View Post
    I expect to be able to straighten/flatten a 10' board within a 32nd. Is all hope loss?

    You’ve had the first machine for a year now, have you used it? If so, what results are you getting? If not, why not?

  14. #14
    Thank you Darcy. I do believe that it's a casting problem combined with being blanchard ground. At a 6k price tag maybe I'm asking to much. I just wish that the company would set expectations better. If I knew the second machine was going to be a repeat I probably would have saved everyone a lot of time and money.
    At this point I am very reluctant to return both of them. I would like to think that all of my time, effort and money will produce something.

    I tried for years to get something used of quality for reasonable price in the South Carolina area with no success.

  15. #15
    John and John with the old machine I have become very good at spring joints. Just because I can make a panel with the old machine doesn't mean I've gotten what I paid for. I believe a good craftsman can produce good results with even the most flawed tooling as long as they know how to manipulate it in their favor.
    I feel two well jointed boards should almost produce a flawless seem without clamps. A little glue and rub them together and done.

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