Old Rusty Tools

[Doug Dawson]

And...what are you doing, during all that soak time?

It doesn't take long to dismantle a tool, toss it in the basket, wipe it off after 20 minutes, and put it back together. I'd rather read SMC than wire-brush my tools. The devil's hands, and all that. :^)

[Jerry Olexa]

If those are Stanley-Baileys, they are worth the effort to restore IMHO.. Those are the best planes available at the time...Only ones comparable today are the LNs-Veritas.
More detail of the frogs and irons would help too...Good Luck.

[Tom Bender]

Give the planes a light cleaning if you want to use them or sell them. Restore them if you are looking for a new hobby.

Maybe Habitat can find a use for the clamps. Otherwise they may be scrap.

But this is just me keeping control in a small shop.

[Stew Denton]

I like the plane I use to be as rust free and shiny as is conveniently possible, also like to repaint the black japanning, and to refinish the tote. However, if you get all the rust of critical parts, and leave the patina or other areas a bit rust does in make a difference in how well the plane will work....not one whit.

If I have restored as many as some of the others here have, I might have a different view on a time consuming restoration to make them look as nice as possible...I might see things differently. Also, some prefer the look of patina, and want them to look like an old plane. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

One critical area, however, is the side of the iron that faces the wood which is being planed. When I get done restoring the plane, I want that free of pitting, rust, and patina. I want it to be flat, shiny like a mirror, and extremely smooth. That is critical to getting the iron extremely sharp with an edge that will hold it's sharpness as long as possible.

One area that is often corroded is the spot on an old plane where the cap iron contacts the iron. It is often badly corroded there, and it takes a lot of work, and may even be impossible, to get it worked down to a flat, shiny like a mirror, and smooth surface. In that case you will never get it to a sharp durable edge. When I have an iron like that, I use a cutter on my 4" right angle grinder, and cut the corroded part of the iron off back to good steel. Go easy using no pressure, cool the iron with water after every pass, and don't let the iron get hot to the point that the temper is ruined. It usually takes me several passes to cut off the corroded part of the iron as avoiding ruining the temper is the main consideration.

When the corroded portion has been cut off I grind a new bevel, getting it moderately close with the grinder at work (again being very careful not to get it hot and ruin the temper), and then finish grinding the bevel with stones and diamond plate.

Stew

[Mike Burke]

Well I have gotten around to knocking the rust of these and thought I would post some photos and ask a couple questions.

First one is a No. 7 It says Baily on it.
some observations...sole is perfectly flat according to my bridge city straight edge. The sides are perfectly square and straight and square to the sole.
I think it's a nice tool. I crudely sharped the blade and it shaved off some fine shavings from some 3/4" maple just fine. I am thrilled with it so far.

Second is a No. 4 It also says Baily on it
some observations....the sole had a rust spot in front of the throat so I sanded the sole and tried remove it. Almost got it all. I have noticed that the sole is not perfectly flat , even after sanding it for a while. It has a little belly, both from front to back and side to side. Maybe .002 or so.
The sides are not perfectly square either...a little rocking on my square and not perfectly square to the sole. It's not bad just not as perfect as the No 7
I don't know if this is normal. Just not as solid as the No. 7 as fare as square and straight.

My questions:

Should I consider buying new knives for them ?
Is it normal for the No 4 to have a little belly on the sole ?
I have seen where some like the sides to be a little beveled to slide across the work piece better.
Should I continue with my restoration and get these even cleaner ?



no 7 pat.jpgno 7.jpg7 sole.jpg7 throte.jpg
no 4 pat.jpgno 4 parts.jpgno 4 sole.jpgno 4 knife.jpg

Thanks for looking

[steven c newman]

Both look great. A little hollow in the sole of the #4 is fine. Both ends and around the mouth need to be co-planar with each other, is all.

Sides square to the sole, is only important IF the plane is used as a "chuting plane" with a shooting board. Irons look fine, should last a few more years worth of sharpening.

Both appear to be Type 10....just over 110 years old.

[Jim Koepke]

Should I consider buying new knives for them ?
Is it normal for the No 4 to have a little belly on the sole ?
I have seen where some like the sides to be a little beveled to slide across the work piece better.
Should I continue with my restoration and get these even cleaner ?

The #4 blade looks like it would benefit from being replaced.

The belly on the sole may have been caused by a previous owner trying to flatten the sole. The answer to your question should be determined by two things. One is how well the plane works in action. Second is how good are you at doing a metal work?

Getting them cleaner, polishing them to shine or repainting them all depends on how you want the planes to look when you use them. A clean, freshly painted plane is nice. For my personal planes, it is too much work and the planes work quite nice whether they are clean & shiney or if they have a centuries worth of patina.

jtk

[Mike Burke]

I might have used the wrong term
The No 4 sole has a bulge/bowed out. So convex.... The straight edge rocks a little when placed on the sole. The middle is pretty flat but the ends are beveled slightly. Cross ways it is flat.
These photos might show it better.
I have sanded the sole on a thick piece of glass and silicone carbide paper 120 grit. There was some rust in front of the throat that is just about gone.
I haven't hit it with a higher grit paper yet.
No 4 sole front.jpgNo 4 sole middle.jpgNo 4 sole rear.jpg

If I were to get a new knife where would I look ?
What do you suggest ? Knife and chipper ?

Thanks for your time

[Rush Paul]

If I were to get a new knife where would I look ?
What do you suggest ? Knife and chipper ?

Mike, the slope at toe and heel is sometimes just a matter of wear over time but may also have been created intentionally by the former owner to prevent the plane from gouging into the work piece, particularly at the heel. I always grind my heels down just a bit exactly as your third picture in your last post demonstrates.

Your chip breaker looks okay from what I can see in your picture, but I agree with Jim that it's time for a new blade. For a new blade. I'll often look to eBay to see what's being offered in an old iron that can be reused. But, I'm one of those who prefer high carbon ("O1") steel and the standard "thin" original blade thicknesses, not the newer steels or thick blades. For a new manufactured blade, I'd recommend a blade from Hock Tools (http://www.hocktools.com/products/bp.html).

Paul Sellers has a good YouTube video about restoring and tuning up an old Stanley Bailey style plane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYyV6IUpsYk

Good luck! Nice to see an old tool being put back into service.

[Jim Koepke]

Mike, Your plane doesn't look too bad. Use it, if there isn't a problem, it doesn't need fixing.

Sadly there are no longer the inexpensive replacement blades available at hardware stores.

ebay has some listed, search > plane blade 4 5 < to find a few at various prices.

jtk

[steven c newman]

nhplaneparts usually has a few....mind the width of the iron/cutter/knife. Some will be sold with the chipbreaker/cap iron..as a set..

Make sure it is for the Stanley plane size you have....not all makers used the same spacings, bolts, widths...

[Tom Trees]

If you want to flatten your no.4 plane which has a belly. the abrasive needs to have a smaller surface area than the plane soles area.
If you keep lapping on a full length abrasive that is stuck down flat to a surface plate, it will create a convex profile.
Shiny dosen't mean flat!


I made two youtube videos on this as there was no mention on this anywhere.
Perhaps more noticeable or important on a longer plane, or one that has a movable shoe which has to be parallel with the sole.
or one that has been lapped before and is not as thick as you'd like.


A narrower surface area than the plane is will float the loose grit off the abrasive and not dull it as quickly, its also quicker as you have
better contact with the surface as your not being suspended on the grit, a bit cleaner to boot.
These videos will explain all,

Hope these links work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_ux786ODwg&t=687s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MlE7Nz3eKg

Tom

[Andrew Pitonyak]

They are always worth at least giving it a shot. I would take a look at the blades, if those are not good, you can always get more, but a good easy place to start. You do not need to totally remove all of the rust to test it, but it will need to glide on the wood for it to cut (mostly).

When things lift and we can interact again, if you live in Ohio, I know some people who would help you out if you need / want help

[Mike Burke]

I have ordered a new blade for this No 4. I have a Hoc blade coming for it.
I also need to get the blade for the No.7 sharpened. I was wondering if there is anyone in Southeast Iowa that would be willing to help me get these two planes tuned up ?
Any Creekers in South East Iowa ? I live in Oskaloosa.

Thanks

[Jim Koepke]

I have ordered a new blade for this No 4. I have a Hoc blade coming for it.
I also need to get the blade for the No.7 sharpened. I was wondering if there is anyone in Southeast Iowa that would be willing to help me get these two planes tuned up ?
Any Creekers in South East Iowa ? I live in Oskaloosa.

Thanks

Mike, Hopefully you are lucky and there is someone in your area to lend a hand.

What equipment do you have on hand for sharpening?

If you have any sharpening gear, it might be good to start with videos made by people with professional level sharpening skills > https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...en+sharpening+ <.

Hopefully this won't dive into a sharpening thread to bring out the 'Flat Bevelists', 'The Hollow Grinder Society' and the 'Don't Vex Make it Convex' crowds.



jtk