Kindergartner + bandsaw: Trouble?

[Prashun Patel]

"I was satisfied that he got the experience of doing it himself while, in truth, we were the puppetmasters pulling the strings."

Best of both worlds!

[Rick Potter]

OK, now that that is finished, let's get down to the question I have been waiting to ask.

You earlier mentioned the tilting head on your Sears bandsaw was not a good idea. I have never used one, but always wondered how well it worked.

Why do you say it was not a good concept? What is wrong with it?

[Roger Feeley]

Agreed Prashun,

I'm a big proponent of teaching children to manage risk. In my view, we as a society insulate our children from all forms of risk and then, at the age of 16, and them keys to a 3,000 pound battering ram and tell them to have a nice life. An old insurance agent of mine told me once that the odds of someone having a major car wreck between 16 and 24 is 80%.

My solution is to deliberately expose them to some sort of risk and teach them from a young age about managing risk. With our daughter is was scuba diving where, if you do about 4 things wrong in a row you can die. Rock-climbing is good. And, of course there is woodworking where the risk isn't generally deadly but certainly disfiguring.

But the risk doesn't have to be all that real to feel real. In the case of my jig, I feel pretty confident that all the adult hands and the jig had reduced the actual risk a lot. It certainly helped that I had the rapt attention of a very well-behaved boy and a dad with the right attitude. But the illusion of the risk was there and that's what counted for me. The boy saw the risk, saw us help him manage the risk and felt that he had earned the right to make that cut by listening and following directions. All good.

[Roger Feeley]

OK, now that that is finished, let's get down to the question I have been waiting to ask.

You earlier mentioned the tilting head on your Sears bandsaw was not a good idea. I have never used one, but always wondered how well it worked.

Why do you say it was not a good concept? What is wrong with it?

The head tilting mechanism is easily jammed up with sawdust and most of the time won't tilt. But the truth is that I seldom want to cut at an angle. The head stays at 90 degrees and otherwise works just fine. I rather like the very large work surface. I should also point out that there's probably no way to add a spacer to do resawing with this bandsaw but that's not a big deal since I also have an 18" Rikon. I keep this little guy around for very light duty precision work. I keep a 32 tpi x 1/4" blade in it. It's ideal for Pinewood Derby or thin plywood or whatever.

It's an interesting question, really. If a product feature that you don't personally use or want is faulty, does that make it a bad product. In the abstract, I would say yes. If a product is supposed to do something and doesn't then it's a bad product. But, for a particular user, it might not matter. I would say that my bandsaw is a faulty bandsaw by design but only if I want to sell it.

[Roger Feeley]

The real fun after the kids racing was the involved adults having their own races. I hate to brag (sure) but my anatomically correct, underweight, Swiss Cheese Wedgie was unbeaten for three years straight, when I retired it.

The next year the fastest adult used a totally untouched car blank with wheels.

Go figure.

I used to joke that they should have an unlimited class for the adults where all rules were suspended. Put a cage around the track and allow rocket motors, blank shotgun shells, electric motors, whatever will fit on the track. That would be troublesome in our area because the competition track has a hump. The cars start at about 6' high, go down to floor level for a bit and up about 2' and back down the the finish. In my view, that imposes a theoretical maximum speed on the cars. I've seen a lot of cars go airborne and flip over. Generally, those cars were in the lead when they took to the air. I tell the kids that I help that they need to put their center of gravity a bit more to the front of the car to account for the hump.

[Charlie Velasquez]

Ok, I am surprised; maybe I am being too cynical, but what was the purpose of the opening post?

The responses were unanimous. Not just unanimous, but generally forcefully so. Never before have I seen such a consensus among a group of woodworkers.

It seems the decision was already made irrespective of the comments.

[Eric Danstrom]

Ok, I am surprised; maybe I am being too cynical...It seems the decision was already made irrespective of the comments.

It's all about what's important. If the emphasis is the adults and not the Scouts this is what happens. Same thing for Packs that run adult Pinewood Derbys.

[Roger Feeley]

Ok, I am surprised; maybe I am being too cynical, but what was the purpose of the opening post?

The responses were unanimous. Not just unanimous, but generally forcefully so. Never before have I seen such a consensus among a group of woodworkers.

It seems the decision was already made irrespective of the comments.

Charles, you aren’t being too cynical. I was and am biased towards having the kids use the machines. The posts warning caution did change my perspective a bit. If three kids. And parents had actually shown up, I would have suggested that I do the bandsaw work and only offered up my jig if the kid. And parent were really enthusiastic and if the kid seemed teachable. When there was only one kid and dad and both were enthusiastic and the kid was very teachable, I proceeded.

absent the thread and advice, I probably would not have made the jig and just opted for various quickly made push sticks.

[Jim Becker]

I'm glad that things worked out to your satisfaction, Roger. I remain very sensitive to the liability that comes with allowing others, especially minors, utilize power tools like this. If it's our own child...well...that's always our prerogative. But even with attorney-authored waivers, the risk is huge for this kind of thing, especially in this day and age.

[Roger Feeley]

I'm glad that things worked out to your satisfaction, Roger. I remain very sensitive to the liability that comes with allowing others, especially minors, utilize power tools like this. If it's our own child...well...that's always our prerogative. But even with attorney-authored waivers, the risk is huge for this kind of thing, especially in this day and age.

jim, I do take some steps to protect myself.
1. I never take any sort of payment for my work or the use of my shop. Not even a cookie.
2. I work with guests intensely to explain what’s going to happen and how we will do it safely.
3. I probably overstress this but before every machine operation, we go through a little ceremony, “what do we do if something goes wrong?” (We put our hands in the air and step away) “Let the machine have it!”
4. I hover, often with my hands very close.
5. The parent (required) also hovers.
6. No operation proceeds until both kid and parent approve. Usually after several practice runs with scrap.

in a litigation happy world and an area brimming with lawyers, that might still be inadequate. I guess I’m an optimist.

[Ole Anderson]

Still have some of my old pinewood derby cars in the attic. As mentioned, band saws are used to cut meat and bone in the butcher shop. Nuff said.