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Thread: Dust Collection – Burn down the house or get lung cancer, which should I choose?

  1. #16
    Also note that the website/resource in question, though likely very well meaning, is also a bit controversial in some quarters, and that it is just one of many resources available. Much of the info is handy and a good guide, but not always universally applicable to all people in all situations.
    Last edited by Andrew Seemann; 01-07-2020 at 3:59 PM.

  2. #17
    Thanks so much!

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    , everyone freaks out after reading Bill Pentz' site.
    I feel like I'm lost in an underwater cave! My sister laughed at me and said, "It'll take a year for you to figure it all out, and you still won't have a single door or drawer in your cabinets"!

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Riefer View Post
    ... And for peace of mind, I remind myself that we're all constantly breathing various pollutants in... pollen, car exhaust, dust mites, second hand cigarette smoke, pet dander, campfire smoke, paint fumes etc. etc. It's just not possible to have perfect air. ....
    Thanks so much. I just want to get to work, instead of setting up! Of course, I did a lot of work with just a trash can with directional inlet and outlet attached to a shop vac, so my new system should be better than that!

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    51,046
    Yes, you cyclone will do a much better job with the major tools than any shop vac could ever hope to provide. Shop vacs are great for cleaning floors and extracting from small, hand-held tools, but are not capable of doing anything helpful in a big way with larger, stationary tools. The don't move air. They just have high static pressure which is ideal for a small hose and a very small collection port.

    Now...go make something.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    I know that nasal cancer is associated with high levels of wood dust but I haven't heard about lung cancer being a risk. Do you have a reference for this?

    I think you're right, it's mostly nasal cancer. Here's one reference, but it only found a link with really high exposure. https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/...1476-069X-14-1

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    .... Bigger concern is capture at the source I think. ...
    Yes, I realize that's what comes next - my next rabbit hole to go down! I was first trying to figure out what my optimal main duct was so I'd know what area I had for each tool's ports.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew More View Post
    ... Just look at the challenges inherent with a sliding compound miter saw, or a table saw. In either case you have a blade with tips moving at ~100+ MPH, while the best Bill Pentz design hits like 40 out of the tube and drops exponentially the further away you move. In the case of a sliding compound miter saw, you also have a saw that has a great deal of flexibility in it's positioning, making collection virtually impossible. ...
    Yeah, I've looked at a few DIY collectors for mitre saws, and they don't look very effective. Thanks for you input!

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Maureen Ragan View Post

    Thanks. I guess lung cancer it is.
    Only if you live in California. For the rest of us, wood dust isn't a known cancer causer.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
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    419
    Quote Originally Posted by Maureen Ragan View Post
    Yeah, I've looked at a few DIY collectors for mitre saws, and they don't look very effective. Thanks for you input!
    I made a smaller version of this and it works very well much to my surprise!

    C3C40E75-860B-4C89-B3E6-5D23AA4B5D51.jpg3A6FB609-B29D-497B-8B17-F757CD8C3C88.jpgB726E7C9-FCAE-4A96-A3FD-3D2073A9A2C3.jpg3DB64C14-5C51-4BD5-9BA6-B1F55DBA15A6.jpg

    Found it on woodnerd.com
    “Pay no attention to what you cannot control..” Epictetus, 100 A.D.
    It costs nothing to be kind to others

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Lebanon, TN
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    587
    If you are really concerned about what you are breathing, get yourself a good respirator. I just purchased a Trend Airshield Pro today. I've been using various respirators, but decided to give this one a try.

    With most of my wood working, my dust collector collects about 95% of the shavings and dust right at the source, table saw, jointer/planer, drum sander, bandsaw and router, to name a few.

    What drifts into the air, my Jet filtration system, mounted on the ceiling, gets most of that eventually. A dust collector will not filter that out of the air, because that dust has to find it's way back to a tool port.

    I just started wood turning, a few weeks ago, and that creates the most dust to date. My dust collection system, currently, is no use in getting the shavings and saw dust at the source, like on my other tools. This is primarily why I decided to go with the Trend Airshield Pro, hopefully, to provide better protection for my respiratory system and also some physical face protection.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Suffolk, Va.
    Posts
    130
    You should be able to find a performance curve graph for your DC. With that you can calculate the static pressure for the pipes and fittings and calculate the FPM air speed in your verticals and horizontals. Each machine should have a CFM requirement and if not there are some general CFM for each machine online. For my system with a 3 HP Jet Canister JCDC-3 collector I ran 6" out of the DC, 90 to the ceiling then around the walls with 4" drops to about 6' from the floor. There I have the gate valve and flex hose to the machine. My ceiling run is about 2' from the wall with a wye turned to the wall then a 90 for the drop. Keeping the wye horizontal keeps chips from falling into the drops.
    Michael Dilday
    Suffolk, Va.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    SoCal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maureen Ragan View Post
    Thanks so much. I just want to get to work, instead of setting up! Of course, I did a lot of work with just a trash can with directional inlet and outlet attached to a shop vac, so my new system should be better than that!

    We all start somewhere. I started with the 5 gallon bucket with a "cyclone" lid . We should all do the best we can but, many of us fall short of the systems that cost more in ducting than the cost of the collector. Even with a full length cyclone I still have activities or areas that put some fines into the air. Hand sanding for one. For these I use a respirator. My previous favorite was discontinued when 3M bought AO Safety.

    Safety-001.jpg

    My new favorite.

    welding resp.jpg

    I like a close fitting mask that doesn't put a couple of large filter cans in my peripheral vision. Both are also easy on, easy off and work with my prescription safety glasses and ear muffs.
    “Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it,”
    -Jonathan Swift

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Daily View Post
    I made a smaller version of this and it works very well much to my surprise!
    Seems to be the best bad solution to the problem. I built something similar for mine.
    IMG_20190715_201858.jpg

    However it has a number of drawbacks:
    1) I pretty much need to make straight cuts, other wise I must remove the panels.
    2) Even with the panels on it, the CFM is terrible. I think I was getting 800-900 CFM at the 6" duct at the bottom of the panel, and 50-100 at the edge of the panels.
    3) It all becomes even worse when you must make a wide cut, because then the saw blade is far away from the cabinet.

    So I'm not convinced that it's hitting Bill Pentz's magical 1000 CFM around the tool required for fine dust collection. I do have a bit of a smaller collector, with 2 HP motor, and a 15" impeller, but I do not believe that upping the HP would fix the problem, since the drop is so large.

    I might get better results with a shop vac hooked up to the dust port on the back. This seems one of the few times when a shop vac might be a better solution than a dust collector, due to the size of the port.

    I have seen some people with a flexible plastic curtain, but I don't think that fixes it either. I think this requires a manufacturer shroud around the blade to really be able to achieve good results. Any such shroud would cause limitations to the saw's ability to make various miter cuts.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Highland MI
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    I also have a 2 hp Oneida Super Dust gorilla. It works fine for me, but doing it again I would opt for the 3 hp unit. Just better specs. As Bill notes, a 7" horizontal main run is optimal with 6" vertical runs if your DC is capable of 1000 cfm with open blast gates. It takes a pretty big offcut to not be pulled up a 6" vertical run. If you think about a 7" horizontal run plugging, think about the increased velocity that will occur at the dust pile as it starts to restrict the flow. That increased velocity will erode the pile and move it down the pipe eventually to the cyclone. Not a problem to worry about. No fires.

    Yes, I went with steel 26 gauge snap lock for the ability to run 5" and 7" size pipe as optimal. I have a 7" main run with 6" vertical serving my miter saw and 5" bottom collector on my TS. I use the stud cavity behind the miter saw as a "hood' and vertical duct down to the floor where it is picked up by the 6". Easy to shut the blast gate with my foot. 5" run to my 4" flex to my router table, another 5" drop to my jointer and planer and a third 5" drop to the 4" flex to my 6" x 48" belt sander and my BS.

    In my opinion, the fine dust is easier to collect as it doesn't have the momentum heaver particles do when being ejected from a spinning blade, so it doesn't travel as far from the dust inlet.
    Last edited by Ole Anderson; 01-08-2020 at 12:53 PM.
    NOW you tell me...

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