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Thread: Ok machinery guys I need education ASAP.

  1. #31
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    This one is gonna depend on how far the boss is willing to let me take it.

    I have a feeling he is pretty tickled with 3-4 of snipe on the leading edge only.

    Me not so much but itís not the worst thing.

    He is talking about swapping the head for a Byrd head. Letís not get into that as he is the boss.

    Point is further adjustments might as well wait till the head is swapped. At this point Iíll go all out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Every machine can be adjusted......one way or another. Just depends how far you want to go.

  2. #32
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    Patrick, I feel for you. I have worked in a few shops. being new in a shop and being stopped dead in your tracks, because you can't just cut a piece of wood until you fix the saw to cut square or the planer to cut without snipe. Good luck.


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    This one is gonna depend on how far the boss is willing to let me take it.

    I have a feeling he is pretty tickled with 3-4 of snipe on the leading edge only.

    Me not so much but it’s not the worst thing.

    He is talking about swapping the head for a Byrd head. Let’s not get into that as he is the boss.

    Point is further adjustments might as well wait till the head is swapped. At this point I’ll go all out.

  3. #33
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    Mark,

    I consider myself still in my infancy regarding my career as a woodworker at 42. I wonder what I’ll be doing and what I’ll think looking back in another 30 years. Where will I be and what will I be doing. And how important will all these experiences be or not be.

    It’s interesting ones perspective as the boss vrs a maker and need vrs want so forth and so on. As a maker to do our best work and thus to show the boss what we can really do and in a timely manner we as makers need tools we can rely on. The boss on the other hand it seems doesn’t “not care” but sees things from a different or multi faceted perspective as I suppose they have to as they hare trying to provide a product they can both hang their hat on and keep the lights on. That’s hard to do “generally” when serving the masses or general public and think you can turn a profit provided the very very best at all times as guys like you and I live by in our own work.

    A for instance. My old boss was generally ok about buying us what we needed. But in getting him there I can identify that i would tell him and ask him for say a new planer. Explain why and he would see my/our perspective but also explain his perspective and pretty much tell you every other shop in the world deals with the same crap and what it should be good enough. He wants to get you the new plainer knowing it wouldn’t hurt and in some ways would help but not actually agreeing to the value of a new machine vrs savings in man hours and increased quality of work. As a result of all this jibber jabber he would come in with something like a larger edge sander but with the platens so screwed you’d have to spend a week scraping them and know how ‘;so it never happens and you have a machine that puts radius on door edges. Or better yet is supposed to ossilate but the bar that connects to the motor is not there and he didn’t notice as he doesn’t know. Or a shaper missing its largest ring and its key for forward reverse. And what can you do as this persons perspective is they are trying to meet you request the best they can and I am sure they are. But for a guy like you I and a few other round here they just don’t get what they don’t get and honestly I don’t think a guy that isn’t down there making stuff all day and with the expectation that on a the best is actually the best and that there is only one best and that’s perfection. And I’m sure if they were to read this they would say the same about us and or me, that we just don’t get it considering all they need to consider. As at the end of the day and after all my drivel we both are kinda right and hence the circle goes round and round.

    But you know as a maker and employee it’s stupid annoying. Annoying enough that even a guy that understands the value of working for someone day dreams about self employment. But you know for me like many makers of things I keep to myself, like really to myself. Other than those I leave my house to work for nobody knows who I am other than family and it’s honestly how I like it. Even family other than a couple I’m all set and way more happy any day of the week in my shop or with the dog.

    Still it wrecks my head that I always have a way nicer shop of my own than that of whom I work for. And that I spend huge money for it when I make no or little money off it. When I weigh that against a boss that does not see the value in good tools I just don’t get it. Sure make me think but I have no line on work of my own. And you know I know it’s not easy and that there so much more to it than making stuff. Lots of kissing ass biting your tongue and probably passing off loads of crap work.

    What are you gonna do. Seems more easy to me to just fix the dam machine best you can then learn to employ the work arounds as they may be the best you can, do your 8 hrs and go home. It’s sad I get to do my best work at home on my own time and that most will never really have any idea what I am capable of. But you know the dam almighty dollar always wins.

    Who is that guy that got dropped off in Alaska at like 55-60 with like a axe and didn’t leave till he was like 90. Maybe that’s my answer?

    But honestly the new job seems like it will be good. And who knows in time maybe the boss will see things more as I do. Right now I’m not gonna rock the boat. I sure will be bummed if in 30 years I look back and see wasted potential as I just did what paid as apposed to what I knew I was capable of and knew I could feel good about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Patrick, I feel for you. I have worked in a few shops. being new in a shop and being stopped dead in your tracks, because you can't just cut a piece of wood until you fix the saw to cut square or the planer to cut without snipe. Good luck.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 01-08-2020 at 11:38 PM.

  4. #34
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    I believe this is correct, I didn't bother looking at the manual.

    Screenshot_20200108-222010_Chrome.jpg

  5. #35
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    Just added more scribbles.

    Screenshot_20200108-222710_Gallery.jpg

  6. #36
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    Patrick, the fact that you worry about his stuff tells me lots about you. I have been fired from a few jobs, much as it's not nice, i am okay with it. I can work in my shop and get by. The problem is when you can't afford to lose your job and you start doing things that you don't want to do. When your job becomes keeping your job, not doing it. You only get one shot at life, find the right balance for you.



    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Mark,

    I consider myself still in my infancy regarding my career as a woodworker at 42. I wonder what I’ll be doing and what I’ll think looking back in another 30 years. Where will I be and what will I be doing. And how important will all these experiences be or not be.

    It’s interesting ones perspective as the boss vrs a maker and need vrs want so forth and so on. As a maker to do our best work and thus to show the boss what we can really do and in a timely manner we as makers need tools we can rely on. The boss on the other hand it seems doesn’t “not care” but sees things from a different or multi faceted perspective as I suppose they have to as they hare trying to provide a product they can both hang their hat on and keep the lights on. That’s hard to do “generally” when serving the masses or general public and think you can turn a profit provided the very very best at all times as guys like you and I live by in our own work.

    But you know as a maker and employee it’s stupid annoying. Annoying enough that even a guy that understands the value of working for someone day dreams about self employment. But you know for me like many makers of things I keep to myself, like really to myself. Other than those I leave my house to work for nobody knows who I am other than family and it’s honestly how I like it. Even family other than a couple I’m all set and way more happy any day of the week in my shop or with the dog.

    Still it wrecks my head that I always have a way nicer shop of my own than that of whom I work for. And that I spend huge money for it when I make no or little money off it. When I weigh that against a boss that does not see the value in good tools I just don’t get it. Sure make me think but I have no line on work of my own. And you know I know it’s not easy and that there so much more to it than making stuff. Lots of kissing ass biting your tongue and probably passing off loads of crap work.

    What are you gonna do. Seems more easy to me to just fix the dam machine best you can then learn to employ the work arounds as they may be the best you can, do your 8 hrs and go home. It’s sad I get to do my best work at home on my own time and that most will never really have any idea what I am capable of. But you know the dam almighty dollar always wins.

    Who is that guy that got dropped off in Alaska at like 55-60 with like a axe and didn’t leave till he was like 90. Maybe that’s my answer?

    But honestly the new job seems like it will be good. And who knows in time maybe the boss will see things more as I do. Right now I’m not gonna rock the boat. I sure will be bummed if in 30 years I look back and see wasted potential as I just did what paid as apposed to what I knew I was capable of and knew I could feel good about.

  7. #37
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    You got it Darcy.

    Chip breaker is factory set. I did read the manual but only after I decided I was done being the chip breaker can’t be adjusted and it’s my opinion the springs are tired as no matter the adjustments I make to the pressure roll the leading edge snipe persists.

    Then there is the fact that the boss told me he switched out and or added to the machine something for quick change knives. When he did it changed the height of the cutterhead to the chip breaker and the infeed roll and well everything. When I got my hands on the machine he had placed shims under the Allen nuts you indicate as the factory set 1/32 chip breaker. Not the pivot point obviously as you couldn’t do that if you wanted to. He said he put it to whatever the factory suggested based on the machine having it’s factory head in it.

    Well I took them out and things got a lot better. But still not even close to perfect. Hence me deciding the springs are tired on the chip breaker. I say so much as it’s clear that as the board feeds in its limiting into the cutter head as apposed to staying tight to the table. I have set the “infeed” feed roller connected to the chip breakers as low as it will go and still that’s not enough to keep the board from lifting slightly into the cluttered before it exits the cutterhead and gets to the pressure bar and then outfeed pressure roll.

    Can’t figure out anything based on all that but tired springs and a factory setting and those springs need to be replaced.

    Buy you know I know I only know enough to be dangerous. But if I don’t insist on learning I’ll never know. And I got lots more years left to work and I’m sure as hell not about to let a planer best me up everytime I Nee to go get a new job. I’m just gonna learn how to fix them. Seems much more easy than suffering at a poorly functioning machine or thinking anyone else will give a dam.

  8. #38
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    I hope I will find that right balance in this shop. As woodworkers I can say this “most of us are characters” not always in the same ways but characters non the less. Point is I have a sense If I can find a way to communicate effectively “you know adapt individually to whomever you are dealing with and present a way they can receive maybe I’ll do ok addressing some of these things as a maker. Maybe that’s wishful thinking?

    But that facts are I do care Mark as you can tell. And you know I can’t help it I don’t know how not to. I care about my stuff, I care about others stuff, I care about being honest, i care about a honestly hard days work. If I encounter it in the course of a day I’m gonna care as of I gotta do it I’m gonna care.

    Sadly i think most find just the thought of so much caring exhausting and wouldn’t even consider wanting to attempt so much caring as they know they would fail. And you know I fail and it hurts when I do but not enough to not always try and do my best.

    Maybe in 30mill also be able to find a way to get by in my own shop my own way doing what I like. For now though this is my journey and being a maker is very very important to me. The way I see it this is all the price of admission. It’s all kinda annoying as hell but you know what I’m alive, I’m healthy as far as I know, I’m not starving “I have been” I have a home and a couple people that love and like me. So I’d say that success.

    Buy]t you know what, to date my biggest job is working to keep my job and yet again you have a point. You have made such points to me once or twice before. It it is only looking back hearing the ring of your “internet voice in my head” that I realize that guy said something that will really have a impact on my thinking and I’ll remeber it 10-20-e0myears later long after I have or have not applied such to my life.

    Anyway I’m a sap but thanks. We all affect each other one way or another good or bad like it or not. At least I think so. So thanks for opening your mouth and telling me what you think. I guy like me might think I’m the Im the only maniac woodworker that has high expectations lol.

    Sadly I do have to have a job. So I guess for now that means working at keeping my job or who knows maybe I have just stumbled into that balance. I gotta at least give this a chance. It’s only the end of day number three and honestly the company I am keeping “boss and one co worker” seem very good. But again it’s week one and I’ll be the first to say you think you know somebody and like 10-20 years later you figure out you never really knew them. But again it’s week one and this conversation is inspired by a bunch of guys with short patients for crap machines and a love everything done righ made well from a time when people still did that.

    The good news is all the crap with the machines just makes me want to iron it all that much more. It sure doesn’t inspire any sense of tossing in the hat. I’ll keep at it with my shop one machine at a time. Bring them back the way you and I know and expect and at some point you know I’ll have a perfect shop to get all pissed about when I get in my overpriced van to go make stuff headache inducing crap. But you know it will make me a better maker. If I can make really nice on a crap machine is my mentality right now. Gotta turn a negative into a positive right.


    QUOTE=Mark Hennebury;2980860]Patrick, the fact that you worry about his stuff tells me lots about you. I have been fired from a few jobs, much as it's not nice, i am okay with it. I can work in my shop and get by. The problem is when you can't afford to lose your job and you start doing things that you don't want to do. When your job becomes keeping your job, not doing it. You only get one shot at life, find the right balance for you.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 01-09-2020 at 12:15 AM.

  9. #39
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    Maybe you should be a writer? J/k

  10. #40
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    Its unlikely the springs are tired, that seems like a last resort. The machine looks only a few years old. Maybe its engineered wrong, but...
    Regarding quality of tools to work with- best way to control the quality of tools you get to work with is to work for yourself.
    You have seen firsthand however how quick money goes in your own shop.
    Add lights, add rent, add insurance, and all other overhead, wages+ overtime and running a small 3-5 man shop gets insanely expensive.
    Most places if the employees are making a good wage, the owner probably is not...

  11. #41
    I have this same machine with the factory installed helical head that is about a year old. The machine ran well from the factory, but still had minor snipe on the trailing end that did not bother me as was upgrading from a lunchbox planer that had much worse.

    After reading this thread I pulled out my Oneway gauge and compared the settings to what is in the manual. The settings for the rollers and pressure bar were much closer to the same height as the cutterhead than what the manual specifies. I adjusted everything to what is specified and it made the snipe much worse and on both ends of the board. I will spend more time on this and report back on what worked to get the machine dialed in.

  12. #42
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    Iím cutting my teeth on SMC.

    If this Woodworking thing fails and I can figure out how to spell and form a proper sentence maybe ill give it a try

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Day View Post
    Maybe you should be a writer? J/k

  13. #43
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    Peter,

    Iím with you 100%, from what I have seen thus far most small business Woodworking or in the trades are either a labor of love, the option for a a myriad of reasons for said individual and pretty much destined to fail if working responsible hours and making a living comparable to your peers that make much more and work much less.

    I am not intending to come across as ungrateful but I understand it might seem that way. From all angles I get the small business thing. I have been working for small business within the trades since I was 16 and Iím now 42. Pretty much all of them are the same story.

    I grateful for the good I take from each position as they last.

    Yeah the bad is annoying but there would be bad anywhere doing anything.

    Me working for myself does not work. As I said nobody in the world knows who I am and what I do. So long as I get up everyday and go work for someone else thatís never gonna change much. Like you Iím up and out of the house 6 ish working by 7 and not home till 6 and thatís this new job working a measly 40hrs a week.

    Doesnít leave much room for much else. Take care of the house, grocery shop do the laundry and what else is left. Again not a complaint but you know who knows maybe at some point I do work my way into having my own shop doing the work I want. I kinda doubt it though being I havenít done it yet. I think even most small buisness the boss doesnít really work in the shop or in the field. The boss is working to get work and keep everyone happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    Its unlikely the springs are tired, that seems like a last resort. The machine looks only a few years old. Maybe its engineered wrong, but...
    Regarding quality of tools to work with- best way to control the quality of tools you get to work with is to work for yourself.
    You have seen firsthand however how quick money goes in your own shop.
    Add lights, add rent, add insurance, and all other overhead, wages+ overtime and running a small 3-5 man shop gets insanely expensive.
    Most places if the employees are making a good wage, the owner probably is not...

  14. #44
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    Patrick try setting the bed rollers about 3-5 thousands above the bed and see if that makes any difference. I just set up a new to me planer and found a drawing on OWWM of a planer in cross section that has basic settings for bed rollers,chipbreaker,infeed and outfeed rollers and pressure bar. Since my machine had no manual I used these settings,my machine works excellent.I think it was Bob Vaughn who drew the planer cross section and provided the settings.

  15. #45
    I spent more time with the planer this evening. So far I have the bed rollers set at the lowest setting where they are 0.001" or 0.002" below the bed.

    The infeed roller is a segmented roller and found the segments do not always line up. The lowest ones are set at 0.032" below the cutting arc. The highest ones are about 0.02" below the cutterhead.

    The manual says the chipbreaker is factory adjusted to be even with the bottom of the cutting arc. However, I found it is more in line with the infeed roller. There does not appear to be an easy way to adjust this, so I let it alone while I tried other adjustments as does not appear to directly cause any problems.

    The pressure bar seems to be where the largest issue is. The manual specifies it should be set 0.008" above the cutterhead. When I tested this setting, there was much worse snipe than where it was from the factory setting at about 0.002" above the cutterhead. I spent considerable time adjusting between the 0.008" and 0.002" that is on the diagram referenced in previous posts. Unfortunately this still left bad snipe. I adjusted the pressure bar to be 0.002" below the cutterhead and seem to get considerable less snipe, about 0.01" from thinnest to thickest part of test piece. Logically, I would think the snipe occurs when the board lifts up into the cutterhead and having the pressure bar at same level as cutterhead would prevent that from happening.

    The outfeed rollers are set at the specified 0.032" below the cutterhead. I may see what happens if these are lowered another 0.001".

    I will spend more time tomorrow to see if further fine tuning the pressure bar can reduce the snipe further. I also feel the infeed roller may be set slightly too low and put too much pressure on the board when it first enters the machine.

    While the machine is not an old Oliver, Whitney, etc, it is still a solid machine that with proper care should still be serviceable in a moderate production environment for many years. Is just a tedious process that requires patience while learning optimal settings for the machine.

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