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Thread: Ok machinery guys I need education ASAP.

  1. #1
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    Ok machinery guys I need education ASAP.

    So day one of the new job. Boy o boy I’m gonna have to get used to making nice stuff with nothing or get the new boss to build upon his shop.

    Anyway that’s another story.

    Right now I have a planer I need to tune. It’s cuts a 6” of snipe on the leading edge and 1-2” on the trailing edge.

    Attached are pics of the machine. A quick rundown of what I do know. The feed rolls need adjusting. Clearly the adjustments are made a in front of the cutter with those Allen set screw with the nut and behind the head with the four Allen screws two with springs. Tighten them more pressure. Loosen them less pressure. Don’t tighten or loosen them left to right evenly and the pressure is not even and the board does not feed straight. Other than that that’s what I know.

    Oh the feed roller under the cast table. Well those were a mess. I really don’t know how they are supposed to be set when zeroed out. I assume zero and or flush with the table. They were not that way. I took a straight edge and found the leading roller to be high even when zeroed. It was like 1/16 high resulting in a straight edge not being able to lay flat across the tables from to back. I adjusted that so the rollers sit exactly flush with the tables when zeroed. I used feeler gauges and a straight edge to make sure the front roller and rear roller raise and lower exactly the same. Again I have no idea if this is how they should be. It did seem to help though.

    So I can almost get rid of my leading edge snipe by tightening the feed roller in front of the cutter. But as I approach no snipe the piece begins to not want to feed. The only solution to get the workpiece moving is to raise the table rollers. Problem is if I raise the table rollers the snipe gets worse again.

    I was able to get things setup so I get zero snipe on the trailing edge and like 3” on the leading edge and minimal at that but what I consider terrible as I need to build right off this machine. If I lift the trailing edge of the board as I feed into the machine I can get rid of much of the leading edge snipe.

    You know any amount of snipe is just not ok with me. As it is I’m gonna have to get used to building stuff without a wide belt sander and with a 12” jointer. Big stuff to not little stuff that most hobby homeowner guys can make argument for not needing fancy large machines. Point is I can’t argue with this machine it just needs to work and I need to make it work first thing in the morning.

    So Im begging those that know please teach me.

    My combo Felder was tuned by the the techs until I was happy. It cuts perfect to this day. My previous employer purchase a SCMI class 630 when I complained his grizzly machine that had the same exact issues as this machine was a piece of crap. I knew it was not crap but that I had no idea how to tune it and he didn’t want to pay me to learn. The SCMI machine cut perfect right out of the box. So you know I’d like that experience again but I know I also need to know how to deal with this issue new machine or old. And I don’t feel much like telling the new boss to buy a new planer. I’d much prefer he purchased me a few shapers a wide belt sander or a wide jointer.

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    EDA8D010-F64A-458E-B04B-FC8730E5EB69.jpg
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 01-06-2020 at 8:35 PM.

  2. #2
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    Can't help you on getting rid of the snipe, luckily my machine works well and never needed adjustment. I can give you the contact info of a local tech who may be able to do it for you, but thats about it. Of course if you've got it dialed down to the 1st 3" of the board.... you could plan around by leaving your stock long.

    As far as the table rollers.... I was taught to have them flush with the table for planed stock and raised a bit for rough stock. I set mine so they contact the wood just enough to roll and leave them there as I don't really plane rough stock.

    good luck,
    JeffD

  3. #3
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    Download and print this out, sure its printed by buss, but it goes for all planers. No idea of the way to adjust that machine, other than replace it with a buss. Lol.

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4977

  4. #4
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    Darcy,


    I mean that in the nicest way of course.

    Thanks for the info.

    I should be able to get any machine cutting snipe free correct provided I’m willing to screw with it enough?’’

    Or do you just gotta pay big money for a such a luxury.

    Yeah I can cut it out jeff but I’d rather take the practice approach and actually once and for not just ignore the problem like it’s gonna go away but face it head on and not be scared of it next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    Download and print this out, sure its printed by buss, but it goes for all planers. No idea of the way to adjust that machine, other than replace it with a buss. Lol.

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4977
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 01-06-2020 at 10:53 PM.

  5. #5
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    Even a Buss needs adjusting, but once done it stays in adjustment longer than you. For a finish planer, I'd take the bed rollers to -0- and get them out of play. Then it is a matter of getting the feed roller pressure right, the chipbreakers set, and the pressure bar exactly at the arc of the knives so the finished board just slips under it enough to keep moving. It's all kind of a dance. Dave

  6. #6
    Rule of thumb I go by - set the in feed, out feed rollers and pressure bar even with the cutterhead, then lower the infeed 1/4 turn and the out feed 1/2 turn.

    I have a really old Monarch planer and with it I adjust the pressure bar with the machine running - if the board stops, raise it. If you get chatter, lower it.

    Seems like you should be able to get the manual easily since it is a modern machine.

  7. #7
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    That appears to be a Powermatic 201. Here is a link to the manual content.powermatic.com õ manuals õ 1791267_man

    Looks like a solid, basic design. The feed section diagram looks almost exactly like the one for my 60's era PM 180 and the adjustments are substantially the same. The pressure bar is the most exacting, it has to keep the stock held down tight without too much friction.I have to keep my bed, pressure bar and chipbreaker waxed regularly once adjusted to keep things moving. As Bradley says, I adjust the pressure bar under power.


    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 01-06-2020 at 9:57 PM.

  8. #8
    The surest way to stop snipe from planer is use a helper to catch and run the stock end to end. To stop the other snipe
    ...stop visiting forums.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Darcy,



    I mean that in the nicest way of course.

    Thanks for the info.

    I should be able to get any machine cutting snipe free correct provided I’m willing to screw with it enough?’’

    Or do you just gotta pay big money for a such a luxury.

    Yeah I can cut it out jeff but I’d rather take the practice approach and actually once and for not just ignore the problem like it’s gonna go away but face it head on and not be scared of it next time.
    You should be able to get that thing planing pretty well, like Dave said, I am use to adjust it once every 5 years kind of thing. That's probably the only real down side to a lot of the newer, lighter stuff, they don't hold adjustments as well.

    Also, I use a 5" block instead of 4" I have wide hands. Lol.
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 01-06-2020 at 10:54 PM.

  10. #10
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    No, not every planer will cut snipe free. Most industrial machines can be set for roughing, that's why the bed rolls are set high. I had a 24" Yates American that I let cut a snipe so I could run with less drag on the bed. I always trim at least 3" off the ends of rough sawn boards anyway, to remove any end checking. So no big deal to get a snipe.

  11. #11
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    How does that song go; "Start at the very beginning... it's a very good place to start"

    Get the bed rollers out of play. Check the table is flat and clean, so, straight edge, Union jack, pattern, around the perimeter across the diagonals. then clean and stone it, to remove nicks and high spots.
    Now you have a flat reference surface.
    Now check with a block of wood under the cutter to see if your blades are all touching, check on both sides. Now you have a flat surface and a parallel cutting surface.
    Now check your front and rear chipbreaker/ pressure bars are flat. If not remove them and lap them flat. Bevel the leading edge of the rear one, so the the board can slide under it and not jam into it.
    Now you are ready to adjust it.
    Set you chipbreaker/ pressure bar level with the bottom dead centre of the cutters with a block on the table.
    Set the infeed roller a bit lower and the outfeed a bit lower still.
    Clean and wax the table. tweak the pressure and heights settings.
    Pressure bar setting is critical.

    Some bed rollers are on cams, which moves their center axis forward or backward, when raised or lowered, if you have a feed roller over the top of the bed roller that can cause the wood lift up or down going into the cutterhead. Ideally the feed rollers should be inside of the bed rollers, so that they are always pushing the wood to the table as it enters the pressure bar and cutterhead.

  12. #12
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    Well at least my intuition was good getting rid of the rollers. Seems every dam machine I have ever used with them even the new SCMi they create issues. It has always been my understanding that as suggested below they are used for roughing and or skip planing.

    No stinking Felder does not have them and I have zero issues. And that new SCMI would make terrible noises with anything but the slightest pressure set on them. Sounded like it might rip a feed roller right out of the machine. Back em off though and it worked a charm.

    I only see adjustment on the top side of this machine for the what I at least think is the pressure roll in front of and behind the the cutter. I donít see adjustments for the chip breaker or pressure bars. Almost looks to me like thatís all built into the feed roll adjustments. Maybe I Did not look hard enough or maybe I did and there is only four points of adjustment baring the adjustments for the under table rollers.



    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Even a Buss needs adjusting, but once done it stays in adjustment longer than you. For a finish planer, I'd take the bed rollers to -0- and get them out of play. Then it is a matter of getting the feed roller pressure right, the chipbreakers set, and the pressure bar exactly at the arc of the knives so the finished board just slips under it enough to keep moving. It's all kind of a dance. Dave

  13. #13
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    Wow mark.

    I just knew I could count on you to come save the day.

    And I knew it had to be super simple as there is only so much going on under the hood of a planer.

    I also had the intuition that I just needed to go all the way to begging and start again. I knew getting the rollers out of the way so I could check the tables for flat was the first step. What I didn’t know was the next steps sequentially.

    So now that I know that I have to go and figure out how to differentiate chip breakers from pressure bars and the corresponding points of adjustment. So far I’m only seeing the six points of adjustment I mentioned up thread. Those six points seem to adjust the feed rollers pressure in front of the cutter and behind. So far I’m not seeing pressure bars with independent points of adjustment. It’s seems to be all built into the adjustment of the rollers. But you know I bet I’m not looking hard enough.

    Part of me to be honest is less than happy that I’m on day number one instead of working “building something” I have my head under a dam machine and the boss watching. But you know he did change the knives first thing this morning then show me a board with terrible snipe and say “we just deal as we have tried fixing it, you wanna give it a go be my guest”. I’m also starting to get the impression that this is just the way it is in most shops as it’s what I see and what I hear from others.

    Non the less it would look better if I have something built come Friday. But you know I just do not have the patients to build nice stuff with machines that give constantly changing and unpredictable results. You can build nice stuff that way I guess but I kinda believe you can’t actually build nice stuff like that. Not as nice as you could if you weren’t forced to muck with a machine a few times a day and or constantly have to scrap a piece here and there. It’s a real pain to go back and make another depending not to mention a buzz kill.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    How does that song go; "Start at the very beginning... it's a very good place to start"

    Get the bed rollers out of play. Check the table is flat and clean, so, straight edge, Union jack, pattern, around the perimeter across the diagonals. then clean and stone it, to remove nicks and high spots.
    Now you have a flat reference surface.
    Now check with a block of wood under the cutter to see if your blades are all touching, check on both sides. Now you have a flat surface and a parallel cutting surface.
    Now check your front and rear chipbreaker/ pressure bars are flat. If not remove them and lap them flat. Bevel the leading edge of the rear one, so the the board can slide under it and not jam into it.
    Now you are ready to adjust it.
    Set you chipbreaker/ pressure bar level with the bottom dead centre of the cutters with a block on the table.
    Set the infeed roller a bit lower and the outfeed a bit lower still.
    Clean and wax the table. tweak the pressure and heights settings.
    Pressure bar setting is critical.

    Some bed rollers are on cams, which moves their center axis forward or backward, when raised or lowered, if you have a feed roller over the top of the bed roller that can cause the wood lift up or down going into the cutterhead. Ideally the feed rollers should be inside of the bed rollers, so that they are always pushing the wood to the table as it enters the pressure bar and cutterhead.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 01-06-2020 at 11:11 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    No, not every planer will cut snipe free. Most industrial machines can be set for roughing, that's why the bed rolls are set high. I had a 24" Yates American that I let cut a snipe so I could run with less drag on the bed. I always trim at least 3" off the ends of rough sawn boards anyway, to remove any end checking. So no big deal to get a snipe.
    That's the beauty of quick adjust bed rolls, quick adjust pressure bar, etc. on bigger machines.

  15. #15
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    Patrick, the infeed and out feed pressure bar / feed roller should be set a couple of thou lower than the bottom dead center of the cutterhead You will have to play around with the height and pressure a bit. Think that if you dressed a board to 3/4" thick and ran it though a second time at the same setting, the infeed roller should still rise up on it and pull it through, the chipbreaker should still be pressing it down tight to the table so that nothing gets cut as it passes under the cuttehead, and the out feed pressure bar will still apply downpressure to the board as the board passes under it and then the outfeed roller should still grab it firmly and pull it through. Good luck. let us know how you make out.

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