Oneway's Talon vs Stronghold vs Vicmarc

[David Wadstrup]

I apologize for asking a question that's already been asked, but I wanted to see whether opinions have changed. I'm also hoping for some definitive "you should buy this" type replies.

I will be receiving a Oneway 1640 in a couple of months and am having a difficult time deciding between chucks. I've narrowed the brands down to Oneway and Vicmarc. I'd love to hear the thoughts of those who have experience with both. I understand that the quality is similar, and I also understand that the Vicmarc has a sealed back that sets it apart. I figure I can't go wrong with either brand, but what I'd really like to hear is is which you'd buy if you had to do it all over again.

I'd also really appreciate if you could weigh in on which model of each brand you'd recommend. As I mentioned, I'll be using this chuck on a 16" lathe. I've only been turning for about a year and a half, and until now have only used the equipment of my instructor. In other words, I have very limited experience with different lathes and chucks. I like to turn smaller items like small salt bowls and chess piece sized spindle turnings, but would appreciate a chuck I could grow into if I start to get into larger items.

What do you think/which would you recommend?

Thanks in advance!

[Eugene Dixon]

All are quality chucks. All require jaws that match what you are doing on the lathe.
FWIW I have a Stronghold and all 3 sizes of Novas. I have used a Vicmarc during a 3 day class.

[roger wiegand]

I own a couple Vicmarcs (120's), an old Nova, and have used the Oneway's in week-long classes. Also a large variety of other chucks at club events. You won't go wrong with either the Vicmarc or Oneway, a lot of the cheaper chucks can be irritating in various ways. I've never thought any chuck I've used was "too big". Many have been too small or had badly shaped jaws to do what they needed to do.

I chose the Vicmarcs to buy because I much prefer the hex key for tightening them to the geared chuck keys. It feels much more positive, and when it occasionally wanders off I've always got a drawer full of replacements. I've never had a piece slip out of a Vicmarc (happened many times with the 1st generation Nova)-- I have had bowls shear off when the tenon broke in a catch, but it has never yet lost hold of the tenon.

[tom lucas]

I have a vicmarc VM120, a Nova Titan, and a cheap barracuda. The chuck bodies on the titan and Vic are about the same, quality wise. Both are excellent. Though the vic fits a bit closer to the drive because it is direct threaded. I like the vic jaws better. However, my next chuck will likely be a Nova G2 because it is a bit cheaper than Vics and the jaws will interchange with the Titan. The G2 is big enough for all but really big things. I'll likely get some bigger jaws for the vic to make it better suited to larger turnings. The barracuda was cheap, but a mistake purchase. I should have gotten a G2 right off the bat. I wasn't sure how deep I wanted to dive into this turning thing when I bought it. Even so, I use the barracuda for smaller stuff as it has a a few types of small jaws with it. It works fine but the tommy bars are more cumbersome to use. As I've gained experience I appreciate the holding power of the dovetail jaws.

The only issue with the Vic is that if I'm turning a small piece of wood on it at fairly high speeds and then just turn the lathe off sometimes the vic will keep spinning and come off the lathe. I've learned to reduce the speed slowly or put some resistance on the piece when I shut it off. It is really too much chuck for small finials. Hence, why I want another chuck. Down the vertex I go......

[Greg Parrish]

I’m using a couple of vicmarc 120’s and love them. I plan to eventually pick up a third so I don’t have to change jaws as often. Can’t say enough positives about vicmarc quality. Wish I had one of their lathes too.

[John King]

I own a couple Vicmarcs (120's), an old Nova, and have used the Oneway's in week-long classes. Also a large variety of other chucks at club events. You won't go wrong with either the Vicmarc or Oneway, a lot of the cheaper chucks can be irritating in various ways. I've never thought any chuck I've used was "too big". Many have been too small or had badly shaped jaws to do what they needed to do.

I chose the Vicmarcs to buy because I much prefer the hex key for tightening them to the geared chuck keys. It feels much more positive, and when it occasionally wanders off I've always got a drawer full of replacements. I've never had a piece slip out of a Vicmarc (happened many times with the 1st generation Nova)-- I have had bowls shear off when the tenon broke in a catch, but it has never yet lost hold of the tenon.

Ditto red text. I have three. They are magnificent. - John

[Jeffrey J Smith]

A couple thoughts on the Oneways...I’m using six of them - Three Strongholds, two Talons and one Older tommy bar model. All have functioned flawlessly for many years. Three were bought new, three were found used. I’m not a fan of their profile serrated jaws, I find they tend to shear off tenons on very wet wood when coring. The dovetail jaws (I thing Oneway calls them smooth jaws) work much better for me, and thats all I use for the most part. I also use a couple of sets of Vicmark jaws on one of the Strongholds - it has a set of slides Oneway used to make just for Vic jaws. I do like their jaws and use them as needed.

The sealed back of the Vicmarks seem to be both a blessing and a curse. They keep most dust out, but what does get in stays. The open backs on the Oneways allow simple dusting with a quick shot of air. For the most part, this is probably a non-issue since I don’t feel the need to clean them that thoroughly but once a year or so.

With six different chucks of various ages you wind up with a pile of chuck keys. All seem to work fine - the Talons use a shorter key thats working end is slightly different from the Strongholds.

In short - I’ve used both and found things to love and about both and little thats not to like. Can’t go wrong with either, but I’m partial to supporting North American businesses and Oneway has always come through with good advice and help on the rare occasion when I had a problem with any equipment I’ve bought from them.

I turn on a Robust AB - the Talons are great for smaller pieces, the old tommy bar model is perfect for detail work and uses the same jaws as the Talons. The Strongholds get a lot of use roughing larger blanks, coring and finishing larger bowls and vessels.

[David Wadstrup]

Thanks to everyone! This has been very helpful. Before starting this thread, I was leaning towards the OneWay Talon. I'm now leaning towards the Vicmarc after hearing all the positive experiences. And like others here, I think I'd probably prefer the hex key over OneWay's version. So, I have a few follow up questions....

1) which size Vicmarc would you suggest for my size lathe and for the size work I currently do?

2) are the jaws interchangeable between all 3 sizes(100, 120, 150?)

3) should I stick with the Vicmarc dovetail jaws, or should I go with the serrated(I think they call it their Shark jaws?) I only have experience with OneWay's "Premium Profiled."

4) what should I know regarding cutting the tenons to use with Vicmarc's dovetail jaws? Do I need to be more concerned with specific sizing of the tenon? What kind of tool do I use to get the correct dovetail angle?

5) finally, should I buy the whole array of jaw sizes or just a couple? which ones if just a couple?

Thanks again. This has been really helpful!

[Peter Blair]

Sounds as if you have made up your mind but I thought I'd just add my 2cents worth. Love my Oneway lathe and the oneway Strongholds, I have 5 chucks including 2 strong holds and wish they all were. I may just sell the other three and purchase one more Stronghold.

[roger wiegand]

1) I only have 120's. I haven't had any reason to think I need something else.
2) 120/150 are interchangeable, 100 is different.
3) I have the shark jaws, I seldom use them. They are great for grabbing a cylinder, but not so much so that it generally seems worthwhile to change jaws. For most work I prefer to keep the work closer to the headstock, the shark jaws stick out an extra inch or so.
4) I don't worry much about the size of the tenon, I've used every size that fits in the jaws, from all the way closed to all the way open. I'd prefer not to have the jaws sticking out where they are a knuckle hazard. As I said above I've not yet lost a piece by having it slip out of the jaws. I am religious about giving the chuck a flat surface to register against, making sure that the workpiece doesn't bottom out in the chuck, and I always cut a slight dovetail-- just by eye, I don't worry about the angle. Most often on bowls I use an angled straight edge scraper that makes about the right angle (75-80 degrees) and a sharp inside corner. If the piece is between centers I turn the tenon with a skew-- peel it down to size, true the endgrain face, and angle the tenon with a planing cut.
5) I use the "standard" jaws (48mm?) 98% of the time. I'm thinking about adding another chuck with bigger jaws as I've been turning bigger and bigger stuff. The pin jaws might be useful if you do a lot of smaller work. I have my old Nova for small work, so haven't gotten smaller jaws. I'll have to figure out what to do when my new lathe arrives, as the Nova won't fit. My second chuck is most often set up with the Cole jaws, the angled bumpers of the Vicmarc version seem quite secure and let me finish most bowl bottoms quite nicely.

[Pat Scott]

1) which size Vicmarc would you suggest for my size lathe and for the size work I currently do?
Really depends on you and what you turn. You said you like to turn smaller pieces so the Vicmarc VM100 would be best. You can always buy a VM120 if you get into bigger bowls and such. I have six VM100's with 7 or 8 sets of jaws from pin jaws up to 4" dovetail jaws. I use them all often enough that I'll probably buy another VM100 soon because it's so much easier to grab a different chuck than stop and change jaws.

2) are the jaws interchangeable between all 3 sizes(100, 120, 150?)
As said before, the 120/150 are interchangeable but not with the 100. The 120 jaws are thicker metal and I think the hole spacing is different too (never bothered to check).

3) should I stick with the Vicmarc dovetail jaws, or should I go with the serrated (I think they call it their Shark jaws?) I only have experience with OneWay's "Premium Profiled."
Again it kind of depends on the types of things you turn. For my VM100 I have both and use both (I have 3 sets of different size shark jaws plus different size dovetail jaws). Start with regular dovetail jaws and then add shark jaws later. I have four VM120's with 7 sets of jaws, two of which are shark. I use the dovetail jaws more with the bigger chuck, but there are times it's nice to have shark for the extended reach.

As a side note, I was told serrated jaws are really made for gripping end grain or spindle oriented work. When using serrated jaws to grip side grain (a tenon on a bowl), the serrations will dig into the wood instead of gripping the outer surface like a dovetail. Since they dig in you need to periodically retighten them. As you keep tightening them they dig in more which can lead to a tenon shearing off or the bowl coming out of the chuck. The Vicmarc shark jaws do have a dovetail profile on the very end.

4) what should I know regarding cutting the tenons to use with Vicmarc's dovetail jaws? Do I need to be more concerned with specific sizing of the tenon? What kind of tool do I use to get the correct dovetail angle?
They say match the size of tenon to your jaws when the jaws are almost all the way closed. I size my tenons so they are 1/3 the diameter of a bowl, but an advantage of having different size jaws/chucks is if I'm off a little or make a tenon just a bit too small I can just grab the next size jaws. I never use my chucks with the jaws all the way expanded, I prefer instead to use the next larger size jaws. I also see far too many videos where guys are making a big 15"+ bowl (for example) but using small jaws or too small of tenon. That's another reason why I have different size jaws. It's been a while since I compared, but Vicmarc has/had more choices available for different size jaws than Nova, especially in the larger Mega jaws (up to 9").

I've seen tenons made with a parting tool, spindle gouge, bowl gouge, scraper, etc. I've used a spindle gouge, skew, and switched to a dovetail profiled scraper several years ago. I use my bowl gouge to shape the tenon and the scraper is only used to refine the shape and get a crisp inside corner (read that as light cuts only). Try and take too big of bite with the scraper and you can get a big catch so there may be a little learning curve with it.

5) finally, should I buy the whole array of jaw sizes or just a couple? which ones if just a couple?
Depends on what you turn. VM100's come with 2" jaws so start with those and add others later. I'd hate to tell you to buy a certain size and then you never use it. Your lathe can turn up to 16", if you ever get into turning big bowls that size you really should get a VM120 with at least 5" jaws. If you want to buy a couple sizes to start, I would recommend 4" VM100 jaws in addition to the standard 2".

One last comment in favor of Vicmarc - all the professional turners that I know prefer Vicmarc. All the production turners that I know prefer Vicmarc. Others have said they prefer a hex key instead of gear key which I do also. I've used a Nova G3 at our club and almost caught my finger in the hole where the chuck key goes. Also the "dovetail" jaw that comes standard with a G3 is not a true dovetail, it has a small bead around the inside rim which is weird.

[David Gilbert]

I agree with Jeff Smith. I have a Stronghold and three Talons and have used Vicmarcs a couple of times. The Stronghold holds the wood much more strongly than the Talons so I use it for most of my coring. Other than that I like them all. I keep different jaws on the Talons so it's easy and quick to chuck up wood that is less than 12 inches. My impression is that the Vicmarcs have a better fit and finish and they certainly have more of a jaw selection. All of the Oneways have a grub screw so that when I am sanding in reverse it doesn't unscrew (when I remember). The Vicmarcs I've seen didn't have the grub screw.

The chucks you are looking at are in my opinion the best. Either way you should be in good shape.

Cheers,
David

[tom lucas]

The lack of a grub screw on the vicmarcs can be a problem for some. I have to watch mine when sanding in reverse. I can't get too aggressive (and shouldn't). And then some users like to hollow in reverse, cutting on the away-side of the piece because visibility and comfort are improved (so they claim). You couldn't do that without a grub screw. I love my vicmarc but think the novas are a better value, especially for 2 -3" mortise/tenons. Two inch (48 mm) is a good general purpose jaw size. My plan is 2" and up on my big chucks and 2" and down on smaller chucks (SN G2 in my future). You'll be making small jamb chucks sooner or later and it's best to design them for the jaws that stay on your chuck most often- likely the 2" jaws. I do find that for work on smaller pieces, a smaller set of jaws (30 mm) would be nice to have (on my wish list) when working with 1 to 2" stock. Get a 4 or 5" set for bigger bowls when/if the projects arise. And pen jaws for really small stuff (or a collet set - my preference). I love that collets let me mount a small tenoned part back on the lathe without damage. So to cover most needs from pens to big bowls, that's four jaw sets: pen, 1", 2", 5". The 1" is a luxury that can be worked around. You'll likely get tired of changing jaws and will be looking to buy more chucks. Four VM120's is going to cost you a grand or so. Each SN G2 will save you more than $100 over the vics. Of course, the jaws are not interchangeable. So there is that expense. Hence, my plan to buy smaller jaws for the smaller chucks and bigger ones for the bigger chucks. The deep jaws with the serrations are best for long/deep hollow forms where a big long tenon is beneficial. I'm too cheap to waste that much wood on smaller projects. There are stepped jaws too. I have a set but don't much like them. For me, ideally I'd have 4 chucks equipped with the most used jaws: a big 5", a big 2", 2 medium 2". And add a collet set for small spindles/tenons.

[Greg Parrish]

There can be a downside too. I buggered up my spindle thread with one of those grub screws. I had to get a thread cutter/cleaner to fix it. Now Im very careful with it but glad the vicmarcs don’t have them personally.

[John King]

There can be a downside too. I buggered up my spindle thread with one of those grub screws. I had to get a thread cutter/cleaner to fix it. Now Im very careful with it but glad the vicmarcs don’t have them personally.

Greg - See red text in quote above. There must be more to the story. Grub screw should never be seated on the threaded portion of the lathe spindle. I have used faceplates and chucks with grub screws made by many manufacturers. I have never encountered one where the grub screw seats on the threaded portion of the lathe spindle. All seat on an unthreaded portion of the spindle between the lathe head and the threads on the spindle. Also, the lathe spindle should be hardened and not easily damaged by a grub screw. - John