Thank you Lee!Originally Posted by Lee Schierer
Contributor
Thank you Lee!
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Member
My perspective as a non-vet civilian is this (eyesight wouldn't let me join in '93): whether or not you joined willingly, you served. And that service was to this country (and others), of which I am a citizen. Ergo, you served me. I try to practice good manners, which includes thanking people when they do things for me. Whether or not you were in the thick of combat or not is irrelevant to me, because anybody in uniform could get orders to be sent to a theater of war at almost any time. Or it could come here. So, even if you don't know how to or don't want to respond, I still thank those of you out there who served. For those who did not receive a warm welcome back to the U.S., I'm glad you're back and welcome home.
Moderator
Perhaps the “thank you” part seems incomplete.
Military service is complicated in ways that civilians may not understand. I can appreciate how some may feel that thanks without that full understanding feels awkward to receive.
But it’s a genuine attempt.
I wish we had a word to explain the middle ground between gratefulness, respect, and I-see-even-though-I-don’t-fully-know. I think we use “support” as this proxY but even that feels slightly off mark.
Last edited by Prashun Patel; 01-05-2020 at 9:34 AM.
Contributor
It's become trendy. The only place that says it to me is Lowes because of my Lowes 10% discount. I don't usually wear anything identifying me as a veteran. I suspect half of them say it because their cash register tells them to. I'm usually a little inwardly amused because "thank you for your service" connotes doing it voluntarily and I was drafted. I still say thanks.
Member
A respectful but silent nod of the head and a handshake if offered. Just so the Vet knows that you know and respect them.
Like many have said, the whole "Thank you for your service" has become cliche and almost like saying "Nice weather today"..
You did what !
Member
Nicely sums up what I have been thrashing around trying to formulate.
Only 1 thing I'll add: In 240-odd years, the US military has never sought to usurp the authority of those they serve. ...Not sure there are many equivalents in world history? If for no other reason than this, Vets, please allow me to extend my thanks.
Contributor
Malcolm, I would expect that the British military may be older, as well as many of European countries........However, your military is certainly older than ours..........Regards, Rod.
Member
The key was not the age, but rather "usurp". I'm not sure how many military organizations, having achieved some degree of military power, have refrained from extending that power into their native governance.
Some might argue that a US general becoming President may give lie to this, but I hold that in our history, the general has first retired or resigned their commission. As I recall, Britain had some issues with who 'controlled' their military during WWI..?
[OP]
Contributor
Huh??
Britain's activities in WWI were directed by a War Cabinet assembled by Prime Minister Asquith as part of Britain's declaration of war. Asquith was leader of the majority party (Liberal) in the House of Commons.
Are you saying the British military, or some part of it turned on it's own government during WWI? If there was such an attempted coup, please educate me.
Edwin
Last edited by Edwin Santos; 01-07-2020 at 10:48 AM.
Member
I never mentioned 'turned', 'mutiny', or even 'insubordination' (gotta go to WWI France for that!). The Asquith administration you reference is only a small, initial part of overall war effort; it got MUCH more complex. Can't cite all from memory, but gist is that officers reported to the crown, and civilian war ministers reported to Parliament. Each questioned the authority and competency of the other. Some might say the military usurped (at some level) civilian control over the military. Some may not.
... and will end my diversion from OP here. Thanks.
Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 01-07-2020 at 11:10 AM. Reason: No coup either.
Contributor
You may be thinking of Lord Kitchener’s dominance in the war cabinet in the early years of the war, which Lord Fisher tried to emulate at the admiralty when he resigned. Lloyd George’s administration definitely worked to reassert civilian control over war policy. However, there was no coup or anything like that. It was more a matter of civilians being overly deferential to the national hero they put in charge of the war department.
I would have to go back to the glorious revolution of 1688 to think of something like a coup in british history. William did invade, but did so at the request of a group of senior army commanders, and with the understanding they would bring their troops to support him if he landed. Before that of course there was Cromwell.
Contributor
I believe the 'Nice weather today' generally has more meaning than most of the 'thank you's I have received. Except in Hawaii since the weather there is almost always nice.
As others have said, most civilians don't have any idea what being in the military is about. For most of them, it is about equivalent to being a park ranger.
The ones I truly appreciate are those in the Coast Guard. As a Navy officer, I thought we had a fairly tough gig with deployments, working up for deployment, etc. Then I talked to a Coastie officer and learned what their schedule was like. I was glad to be home as much as I was compared to those wonderful hardworking people.
I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love.... It seems to me that Montana is a great splash of grandeur....the mountains are the kind I would create if mountains were ever put on my agenda. Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans. Montana has a spell on me. It is grandeur and warmth. Of all the states it is my favorite and my love.
John Steinbeck
Member
Mark, I've quoted you here, but this is to all the similar respondents - I am surprised by the numbers and truly sorry you feel this way. And clearly, I AM missing something.
Why does a civilian need to know what your respective service experiences are 'about'? Could a 'thank you' not be just about their gratitude? How will you feel if they just flat-out ignore you and your Vet hat?
Does this concept apply to restaurant's wait staff? (I've never been waiter, so sadly don't know what its about.) Teachers maybe?
Perhaps I am in the middle of this military<>civilian understanding gulf..?? Never served, but my father was, well apparently, a 'park ranger'. I was born in Germany while my father had an F-86D strapped to his ass. Some of my earliest memories are him explaining what it meant when the Squadron Commander and Base Chaplin arrived by GI sedan in front of the house. And this was in peace time; training was apparently dangerous too. Families of my father's friends received such visits and I grew up with their children. Does this middle ground allow me to say 'thank you for your service' with more grace than 'looks like rain'? If so, do I pre-identify my understanding in some way?
And my profound apologies if this sounds scolding, but if you wish to avoid the awkwardness of a 'thank you', perhaps remove any clues to your status as a vet..??
Again, my apologies ... I am most assuredly missing something profound, but I would truly like to learn more.
Moderator
True
That is not true. I certainly do not think that, and don't know anyone who does.
Last edited by Prashun Patel; 01-09-2020 at 10:27 AM.
Member
Interesting thread. I started surfing around and found this, it explains the way I feel about the whole thing better than I can express:
Some veterans believe that saying “thank you for your service” is almost a way for civilians to massage away some of the guilt at not participating themselves. During a recent interview with the New York Times, Army veteran Michael Freedman, 33, feels like the thanks “alleviates some of the civilian guilt,” adding: “They have no skin in the game with these wars. There’s no draft. No real opinions either,” he said. “At least with Vietnam, people spit on you and you knew they had an opinion. Thank you for your service is almost the equivalent of ‘I haven’t thought about any of this.’”
What bothers me more, is the assumption that every vet has PTSD and is some type of psycho bomb ready to ignite or is mentally damaged. There's plenty of that to go around for the civilians.
For me personally I make it a habit of almost always silently paying for the meals of any police or service members I see without letting them know it was me. I tell the waiter "just tell them someone appreciates them." Funny thing, in most places, the meals for police is often at a discount, often half price food and free drinks, usually costs me hardly anything LOL.
And yes I'm a vet, but that doesn't define me, I prefer no just keep that to myself. I don't wear a bunch of medals or military gear to broadcast it.
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