"Live edge lumber" musings

[Gordon Stump]

Some people still like clocks. I can think of over a dozen in my house, shop, and barn. But only a few are in high quality cases, wood or metal.

I like clocks

[Patrick Kane]

I didnt read a lot in the middle, just the beginning and the end. I would argue Nakashima's greatest skill was visualizing piece in a log and sawing to that piece. To an extent, his work is absolutely diluted by the last decade or two of proliferation, but that is what will always stand out in his pieces versus Tom, Dick, and Harry's Etsy pages. It's also a skillset his daughter lacks, i think.

I will pile on that the sawyers are making hay while the sun is shining. I know two local tree services that slab residential walnut logs and sell the green slabs for $5-7 per board foot. I have no idea how they keep getting those rates for green lumber, but it seems like they move product. Like the OP observes, one of the better one-man-outfits here is almost exclusively sawing live edge. I cant blame him, it looks like half the work and you have a product that is somehow more valuable. I missed the boat on riding the LE wave. Too bad, i think there was some decent money to be made.

[Andrew Gibson]

I have made a few live edge pieces and personally find them to be more challenging from a design standpoint compared to a traditional piece of furniture. Most who pump out Live edge tables and river tables seem to just grab any old slab and throw it together using the live edge as an excuse to not actually worry about design, proportions, or aesthetic. Most slabs would be better served if rendered down significantly IMHO. I am fully in the camp that river tables are the shag carpet of the 2010s, though I have seen some that I like. I believe social media is to blame, anyone can buy a slab throw some store bought legs on it and suddenly become a "maker". At the end of the day if it gets more people woodworking, maybe it's not all bad.

Here is my personal coffee table. I am quite happy with how it turned out. The top was made from a rather ugly, twisted slab that was originally about twice the size. I think I found what the slab wanted to be.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have made a few live edge pieces and personally find them to be more challenging from a design standpoint compared to a traditional piece of furniture. Most who pump out Live edge tables and river tables seem to just grab any old slab and throw it together using the live edge as an excuse to not actually worry about design, proportions, or aesthetic. Most slabs would be better served if rendered down significantly IMHO. I am fully in the camp that river tables are the shag carpet of the 2010s, though I have seen some that I like. I believe social media is to blame, anyone can buy a slab throw some store bought legs on it and suddenly become a "maker". At the end of the day if it gets more people woodworking, maybe it's not all bad.

Here is my personal coffee table. I am quite happy with how it turned out. The top was made from a rather ugly, twisted slab that was originally about twice the size. I think I found what the slab wanted to be.

Thats a good looking piece Andrew.
You definitely captured the spirit of that slab.

[Jon Grider]

I have made a few live edge pieces and personally find them to be more challenging from a design standpoint compared to a traditional piece of furniture. Most who pump out Live edge tables and river tables seem to just grab any old slab and throw it together using the live edge as an excuse to not actually worry about design, proportions, or aesthetic. Most slabs would be better served if rendered down significantly IMHO. I am fully in the camp that river tables are the shag carpet of the 2010s, though I have seen some that I like. I believe social media is to blame, anyone can buy a slab throw some store bought legs on it and suddenly become a "maker". At the end of the day if it gets more people woodworking, maybe it's not all bad.

Here is my personal coffee table. I am quite happy with how it turned out. The top was made from a rather ugly, twisted slab that was originally about twice the size. I think I found what the slab wanted to be.

Although it's not my style, that is a well executed table. The base shows skill and thought with the through M&T's and gentle curves. The proportional size of the live edge to the rest of the slab perimeter actually compliments the table and does not add a clumsiness to the top as so much LE slabs do. The table would have been lovely with a solid oval top as well. Just my opinion.

[Jon Grider]

Jon first let me reply to you. I apologize if my comment felt aimed at you, it was not intended that way. I am actually thrilled you made you post and opened this topic up for discussion and I agree that you didn’t do so in an offensive way. I certainly wasn’t trying to single you out but I see how my quoting “musings” made it seem that way. My apologies. I certainly have fairly strong opinions regarding design and aesthetic sensibilities and I am not out to change anybody’s mind. Part of me thinks we can have an interesting discussion and it was disheartening to see to an interesting topic devolve into what felt a little bit like “let’s collectively make fun of live edge.” Obviously if the topic drew me out of lurking I am interested and believe we can discuss LE and “over done” trends without potentially insensitive comments comparing peoples projects that they have shared with the forum to shag carpeting needing to be thrown away. Prashun perfectly captured my feelings when he wrote, ”Deriding live edge as a category is about as ridiculous as loving it as a category” and with significantly more parsimony. My eyes roll just as hard when I hear things like "slab tables are so played out, everyone is making them now" as when I hear "GAWD I loves me some live edge furniture MOAR river tables!" I was/am merely trying to encourage us as a group to avoid 50 posts about how we all agree LE is played out and have the more interesting discussion. Darcy's comment about pallet trend was hilarious, and the Haiku actually made a good point.

Now I don’t understand/agree with the concept that poor but widespread imitation somehow cheapens Nakashima’s work. I think if anything it shows that simply trying to emulate the look of something without understanding the intricacies in the design philosophy will often lead to subpar results. It speaks to Nakashima’s brilliance that despite a seemingly simple approach there are layers of complexity in the many minute choices he made in his designs. The same applies to Ansel Adam's work. In photography it is even more frustrating because technology has gotten so good that it is easier than it has ever been to become competent technically. It also forced me to come to terms that simple technical competence of a subject does not equal inspiring work. There were a bunch of average photographers who were no longer able to rely on expensive initial investment and lack of access to protect their livelihood. I truly believe that a master of hand cut dovetail joinery should not be threatened but a hobbyist with a side gig making pocket hole drawers and cabinets.

I did try and touch upon what I have learned in similar situations with my involvement teaching AP Art and Design (photography is included in the design designation). I believe that I may not have done a good job because it seems like my intent was misunderstood. I was in no way defending situations where "trendy" art received a score higher than it probably deserved. Let me make this clear, those situations were reprehensible especially when you consider the qualifications needed to become an AP reader. I was merely trying to point out the power of trends in shaping people's aesthetic sensibilities, especially when they lack exposure and background in a subject. I was also trying to point out the predictable reactions from different demographics. Obviously a community like SMC is going to have a much higher percentage of people who are able to recognize the widespread proliferation of work in a trendy style that is often not very good which is why I said I was not surprised at the overall direction that the thread took. I agree with your sentiment that you cannot wait for the the passing of this fad, but perhaps for a slightly different reason. Fads like this make it all too easy to simply dismiss good work just because it's trendy, and often as you stated yourself, good work that is not part of the trend gets lost in the flood of subpar work that dominates etsy, tv programming, instagram etc.

Fredrick Skelly I will try to tackle a thoughtful response to your contribution but it is going to have to be in subsequent post I am tired of thinking and typing.

Cristobal,

Thank you for your post. I probably did misinterpret your first post but I believe I now understand your intent. I don't necessarily agree with your position on the effect of "widespread imitation" of Nakashima's work but my opinion is worth just what I ask for it. I can agree to disagree and don't wish to have the tone of being the final authority on anything. I was surprised at the direction the thread took but in retrospect I can see that I should have anticipated a divisive response . I apologize to all if I added fuel to the fire.

I do hope you'll continue to post on SMC; like you, I enjoy different perspectives and usually this forum is one of the most cordial I have participated on.

"

[andrew whicker]

Why would a thick slab cost less than a rough cut board? The rough cut boards are being produced by the millions (or something). Slabs commit the tree owner to producing less volume of wood and producing something that will probably sit in inventory longer.

Everything has it's place in furniture design / functional art.

If one is going to go off on a 'generic' rant, then every design is up for that treatment. I don't like G&G furniture because I think it's furniture designed by a woodworker trying to show off their skill vs a furniture designer trying to make an elegant design. I don't think every complicated joinery piece is bad, I just think it needs to either be a part of the design or left out. G&G looks forced to me.

Anyway, my biggest frustration is the epoxy thing. But that's mainly because I have hard time seeing any epoxy furniture as heirloom quality. All the clear stuff will eventually cloud. But I also see it the same way I see G&G stuff, it's an epoxy person making a design based on their skills vs making a design based on.... good design. And besides, it simply isn't going to sell at the heirloom quality prices. So it's not something I have to worry about.

My thought on design: loosen up, look around, make sure you are doing something that fits the concept and not the other way around. Try not to be a hammer that always sees a nail. Live edge, complicated joinery, epoxy, scroll work, etc etc. Try to get out of the box. I think my live edge table worked because the edge worked with the overall design, it doesn't look forced. Not a normal table base with a slab thrown on top.

But the reality boils down to: if the end user likes it, who cares? Picasso doesn't care that you don't like his work. My customer and I don't care if you don't like my dining table.

[Bill Carey]

...... I was not moved by the conoid desk - it made me think of a poor game of the woodworking version of Mr. Potato Head. IMHO. ........

The Mr Potato Head comment has been bothering me. Thought it was clever at the time, but now it seems petty and silly. In truth, I do not care for his work. His skill and vision and execution however are very impressive, and the truth that he found for and in himself seems to have been the path he unerringly took. And he and the work of his family deserved better than the potato head comment. Mea culpa.

[Derek Cohen]

There is one aspect to the live edge furniture I do like .... in a few years time, when the fad dies and fashion moves on, there will be a plentiful and hopefully cheap source of slabs for re-sawing into timber for furniture.

Regards from Berlin

Derek

[Jerry Wright]

Most of these posts sound like sour old men who are bitching about the weather. More time in the shop and less time on the keyboard will cure that ailment. Remember that " there are those who do and those that boo. Doers never boo and booers never do".
Another grumpy old man!

[jack duren]

Most of these posts sound like sour old men who are bitching about the weather. More time in the shop and less time on the keyboard will cure that ailment. Remember that " there are those who do and those that boo. Doers never boo and booers never do".
Another grumpy old man!

Agree..........

[Frederick Skelly]

Most of these posts sound like sour old men who are bitching about the weather. More time in the shop and less time on the keyboard will cure that ailment. Remember that " there are those who do and those that boo. Doers never boo and booers never do".
Another grumpy old man!

That's a very good point, Jerry. Thanks for the reminder.

[David Utterback]

For me, the works are all about the unusual grain figure and the texture of the natural edge especially with cherry bark attached. The contrast of heart wood, sap wood and cherry bark is a "natural" feature that enhances the elegance and ties it firmly to the original material. I plan to use much more of my stash in this fashion.

I have not read any Nakashima but have admired his work in books and articles and have sat on his products in museums. His use of natural materials is emblematic of his authentic artistic impression from the real world. Many great artists have this special sense. And, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

We all have our own ways and may the great diversity of all continue to enrich the whole world.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’m not much for the style. But as a maker sometimes a piece of lumber is just perfect the way it came off the mill or it was sawn. When you see a piece like this it can’t be argued with.

But as a maker, lover of furniture craft and anything hand made I don’t much care for the style either.

Just so much crap out there. Last year i was installing some cabs I build in a clients house. They had this beautiful slab style bubinga dinning table. Well the slab was beautiful it only had one live edge but the maker be it at the request of the buyer or not I don’t know glued another live edge onto it. The glue line was clear as day and just a horrific. So may better uses for that particular piece of wood. As a lover of lumber and I guess collector I wouldn’t had been willing to sell that piece to that client for any amount. It imop is a waste of a natural resource we will one day not have. Money is just not that important. I would had waited for a paying project I could be proud of or kept it for myself.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have not read any Nakashima but have admired his work in books and articles and have sat on his products in museums.

David, I dont "know" anybody who has sat on Mr. Nakahima's products. Did you find them to be comfortable? I ask because ... well, some of them just don't look comfortable. I keep thinking of this one when I say that. And I acknowledge that I may have missed the whole point of this piece- I'm not trying to be a wiseguy.
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