First Post: Beginner woodworker questions.

[Brian Tymchak]

I also have a few contrarion and practical thoughts:

• A used contractors saw in good condition will suffice for most of your cutting needs. I've had a Ridgid TS3650 for almost 15 years and it has done everything I've needed to do on a table saw. I did put an Incra fence on it though in part to give me a fence for my router in my left wing. Some say that at 1.5 HP, contractor saws are underpowered. If you are doing production work all day, that's true. However, I've been cutting 8/4 Ash and Maple for years on mine. For a hobbyist it is sufficient. It also runs on 120v. I would certainly like to upgrade to a 3HP Sawstop at some point but I don't NEED to.
• Buying s4s lumber doesn't automatically get you past the need to surface the lumber. Lumber moves with humidity changes. I've bought s4s and needed to joint and plane it to get it flat for my projects. I realized how much money I was wasting and started buying rough sawn lumber.
• You can buy an after market splitter to add to your table saw if it does not have one. I use the MJ Splitter from MicroJig. A $30 solution that works great. You will want to use a Zero Clearance Insert (ZCI) on your saw anyway, so the MJ Splitter is an easy and effective solution.
• Maybe it's just me but I had difficulty using a bandsaw effectively when I was a beginning woodworker, even though I bought arguably one of the better 14" saw on the market at the time (Rikon 14" Deluxe). Getting it set up correctly and making the guide and tracking adjustments to change blades takes a bit of education and trial/error training. In my experience, bandsawing almost always leaves a rougher cut than a tablesaw with a good blade. Having said that, I'm now starting to incorporate my bandsaw in more and more projects.
• I"ve been using a Jet 6" jointer for as long as I've had the Ridgid table saw. I've jointed 9' lumber on that machine and it is still useful, however, I've had to work around the 6" limitation several times. It is likely going to be my next upgrade.

My recommendation is go with a used contractor saw and 6"or 8" jointer. This will rapidly increase your capabilities for the minimal outlay.

[Jacob Reverb]

My recommendation is go with a used contractor saw and 6"or 8" jointer. This will rapidly increase your capabilities for the minimal outlay.

+1 And spend the $2-3000 you save by not buying a superduperuber table saw on some decent planes, chisels, etc. This stuff adds up fast.

A router is nice to have, too.

[David Eisenhauer]

Welcome Phiip to SMC and Happy New Year. The TS vs BS discussion has been ongoing for many, many years and many woodworkers have faced that decision. IMO, a detail that facors into that decision is whether or not you intend to work chiefly with plywood (or similar sheet goods) or timber. Generally speaking (not at all written in stone), sheet goods are handled very well by a TS and timber can be handled by either (sort of), with a definite lean towards the BS if you venture much beyond the 3/4" material thickness. Like many others, I started with a TS and have gradually (over many years) moved more towards BS use as I moved away from plywood cabinetry and into solid wood furniture building. Someone above recommended that you attend classes or something similar to help you figure out what you want to do best. That is very good advise. Different tools (and machinery) work best at different tasks and it is easy to spend lots of $ on stuff that does not get used as much as you thought it would. I do not know where you are located, but if you are somewhere that another SMCer is, I have no doubt that a shop visit and some demo/hands on activity could be organized. I say go slow on buying for now and buy as the need for a specific tool arises as you work on projects. Have fun.

[mike stenson]

I'd buy the referenced Grizzly contractor saw and jointer for the $300, sink another couple hundred into a used T-square fence, and save the $$$ you'd spend on higher end tools for the moment on wood for the moment, and figure out what you enjoy making. In any case, those two tools are useful to have around.

[jeff norris 2011]

Smart start coming here first. If you can find a group of experienced woodworkers locally you would do well to hook up with them. You can can do some shop visits and likely get some leads on good used tools.

One issue is you don't know what type of woodworker you are and what type of work you are in to. I am mainly a furniture maker working with rough lumber. So I really need the big 4 - Table saw, Jointer, Planer, Bandsaw. If I knew this when I started I would have bought:

A saw stop cabinet saw (the didn't exist when I started)
A jointer/planer combo machine like the grizzly G0634XP
A 17" bandsaw like the grizzly G0513X2
A cyclone dust collector.

I have been at this for 20 years and had to be three table saws, three bandsaws and two jointers to get it "right". Of course I still don't have it as perfect as it could be but I am committed to my tools and they are too close to my ideal setup to change (delta unisaw, grizzly G0490 8" jointer, grizzly GO513 bandsaw, Delta lunch box planer).

Of course this would be a huge chunk of change to get started. Used tools are a great option, they tend to hold there value very well, so if you started with your buddies stuff, it can give you a taste if you like this and the kind of work you do and then you can sell them and buy some "for ever" tools.

There are lots of very good barely used tools out there. If you learn how to set them up, they will be every bit as good as new items. The one exception is the sawstop cabinet saw. This tool was a game changer, and as a result pushed allot of cabinet saws onto the used market as people upgraded.

[Edwin Santos]

Hi,
I'm not sure where you are located, but if by chance there is a woodworking school in your area or nearby, it may be worth checking it out. I have found the woodworking schools all invariably offer workshops and classes at all skill levels where you will get exposure to all the woodworking tools in creation and the people there are usually very helpful and supportive.

One of the dilemmas in woodworking is that pulling the trigger and buying a tool is just the beginning. How to use it safely and get the most out of it is a whole other endeavor. I always say, the tools don't come with skills. The manuals only offer basic operating information.

Anyway, check out a woodworking school; you might make some friends, have a good time, and come away with the ability to make more informed decisions about what to buy and how to meet your goals. My $.02

Edwin

[Mike Henderson]

I am going to be a bit more contrarian than most.
1. Go take some classes so you can figure out how you enjoy working
2. Join a local woodworking club if there is one around. You gain by seeing what folks are doing, and in my experience are very supportive of new woodworkers. (Online stuff can be helpful, but it is not the same as seeing things in person and getting some hands on time)
You will have a much better feel for the tooling direction to pursue

John

Job

I second this advice. First, you'll get some education on how to use the tools safely. And, most likely, you'll get to use some good tools at school which will help you decide what tools you want to purchase. You'll also learn how to build furniture properly - how to select the best joinery and how to accommodate wood movement.

As others have pointed out, it's very difficult to make a living building furniture - people just won't pay for custom built furniture. The stuff in the furniture stores is very acceptable for most people and you can't compete with those prices. Enjoy it as a hobby.

Mike

[Erik Loza]

I suppose I'm the contrarian here, but if I were starting with an empty shop, I'd spend first on a good, steel backed bandsaw - probably 14", but 18" if I could swing it - and a jointer - 6" will do for starters, but again, bigger if you can swing it.. Those two, with some well chosen hand tools would get me through the vast majority of "straight, solid wood" projects I can think of.

100% agree with this ^^^

Erik

[David Bassett]

A class, or several, would definitely be the quickest way to figure out what kind of woodworker you want to be. A good local club would be a close second.

What would be some good suggestions for a place to start with hand tools? It looks like they can get pretty expensive too. I've seen a few planes in the box stores, but i'm guessing they are probably crap. ...

We have an entire sub-forum where we argue about this all the time.

To dip your toes in the water I'd suggest starting small. Even if you end up basically machine based, small hand tools are useful for tuning things, etc.

To use hand tools effectively you have to achieve sharp. As a start a couple chisels and a basic sharpening kit would let you gain skills without (that) much of a commitment. Even with such a basic start there are many ways to go. Restoring old tools is probably the cheapest in dollars, but more costly in time, and has more to learn up front. (Use plus restoring.) Modern premium tools will cost big bucks, but are usable once you've mastered basic maintenance and usage skills. (Many many threads to browse about each, and every option between, in the Neanderthal sub-forum.) After trying this & that, I've settled on a middle ground for chisels the TFWW's Ashley Iles chisels. They're not the premium big ticket super-steel, but neither are the (rare here) rust bucket gems I need skills to restore to use. For sharpening them, long term you'll probably want either oil stones, water stones, or diamond plates & ceramic finishing stones, but for low entry cost it's hard to beat "scary sharp" system of wet/dry sandpaper on scrap float glass.

Good luck & have fun.

[PHILIP MACHIN]

Thanks for all the awesome advice! Some responses below in no particular order:

• I'm going to head over to my buddies place tomorrow to check out the used TS and Jointer. It's starting to sound like he might just give it to me (His wife wants it gone) so that could be a big win. I checked out the MJ splitter, and that makes me feel a lot better about using it. I'm new to woodworking, but I've worked around heavy equipment and machining equipment my entire adult life and I have a heathly respect for what a 1hp+ motor can do to the human body, blade or otherwise.

• I am in Southeast Michigan (Detroit Area), and I've been browsing around the web looking for classes. Maybe i'll get lucky and find something I can use my Post 9/11 GI bill to pay for.

• I don't plan on making money from this. I was an Electrician on a submarine, and I got used to fixing and making things with my hands and now I have a desk job. I need a hands on outlet, and so far this has been doing the trick.

• I am mostly interested in furniture, and home improvement type woodworking (Closet shelves, built-ins, banisters, etc)

Thanks again for all the great advice!

Phil

[Phil Mueller]

Phil, first, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!. And second, from one Phil to another, and living in SE Michigan as well, you are more than welcome to come try hand tools anytime. I have a very small (150 sq’) shop and am primarily a hand tool user. I have planes/saws/chisels/sharpening stuff that could give you some idea of what you may or may not want in the future. If you become a contributor ($6/year - see “donate” tab at top of page), you can private message me.

Would welcome meeting you.

Phil

[Andrew Seemann]

Rest assured, that no matter how much you research, plan, and soul search, in a year or two or five or ten (or twenty), you will realize that there were things you should have bought earlier, things that you should have bought better, things you didn't need to spend as much on, better orders to acquire things in, and probably some projects you should not have attempted. This happens to everyone. There is no way to know what you will like about the hobby ahead of time, you can only make the best guesses you can and then act on them. Some people get lucky and hit most things right the first time, but most of us end up with some detours on the way.

For example, when I started out, I used my dad's 9" Craftsman table saw he bought in 1956. It actually served me quite well, and I made lots of furniture with it, much of which we still use. But when I started working on white oak mission furniture, I soon realized that its 1 HP motor and slightly wobbly arbor weren't going to cut it anymore. I agonized over what to replace it with, mostly because I didn't have a lot of funds at the time. I eventually picked up an old Rockwell Unisaw from the 60s. It was 3 phase and needed some work. Because I had been a machinist, and I had the idea (then, not anymore) that old American Arn was always superior to imported Asian junk, I picked it up, bought a new motor for it and restored it, and used it until just recently. The thing was, I could have picked up a new Jet cabinet saw for a few hundred dollars more than the Unisaw. After what I put into the Unisaw, they were basically the same price, but the Jet was actually a much better saw. The fact was the Unisaw was in quite rough condition having come out of a production cabinet shop. The top was worn and had a dip in the center, and the miter slots were worn and sloppy. However it was so much of an upgrade from the then 40 year old Craftsman, that it took me years to realize this. Had I bought the Jet originally, I would still be using it. But then again, these are the things you realize only in hindsight with the benefit of many years of experience. At the same time, had the top to the other saw been in better condition, I probably would still be using it. You just don't know what the future holds

[Ken Kortge]

Thanks for your service! Google "the weekend woodworker". It's an online introduction to woodworking that includes recommendations for basic tools, with cost in mind, and specific projects and their plans. I signed up to it and have enjoyed it.

[PHILIP MACHIN]

I'm pretty familiar with what to look for when inspecting a used Table saw, but what should I be looking for with the jointer?

Thanks,

Phil

[Mick Simon]

Sounds like you've caught the bug, so I'll join David and John in their recommendations to sign up for a class.
The Grizzly deal would most likely be a no brainer in that you could no doubt flip both machines once you outgrow them, but most teaching facilities have good equipment and will expose you to the craft and to better equipment.