First Post: Beginner woodworker questions.

[Jim Dwight]

A jointer is a fairly simple machine. The outfeed table should be at the same elevation as the knives on the cutter head and the infeed table is lowered the amount you want to remove. If you raise the infeed table to the elevation of the outfeed table, they should be in a straight line. A straight edge would be handy to check them, a long level is a reasonable substitute.

I got my current lunchbox planner from a guy at church that thought it had an electrical issue (not in my experience) and wouldn't cut anymore (true but it was due to grossly dull blades). So you should check the blades but a need for sharpening including small nicks is not a big deal. To be expected.

I do not currently own a bandsaw. I used to have one but got rid of it during a move and haven't replaced it yet. I did all the trim carpentry for my house plus built 3 beds, 4 end tables, a chest of drawers, a crib, and a changing table/chest of drawers without a bandsaw. I need a new dining table, however, and the design I plan to use pretty much requires a bandsaw. So I will get one.

I buy my tools based upon what I want to build. Some people like using a bandsaw and hand tools but I do not have the patience for that. I use bandsaws for curved cuts, not straight ones. I have a SawStop PCS but used cheaper table saws for decades. But I always had a table saw. To me they are basic, not just for cutting things to size but also for joints, rabbetts, dados, and tenons. If you use sheet goods, I think a track saw should be on your list. Wen is the least expensive I've seen. Makita and DeWalt mid-level. Festool near the top level of price.

Without a bandsaw you need something that cuts curves. A bosch jigsaw is what I use now. Much better than most jigsaws and not terribly expensive. You will still want it with a bandsaw. I could possibly continue to get by with just the jigsaw but I don't want to. Even a good one lets the blade tilt especially in thicker wood.

[John Stankus]

Thanks for all the awesome advice! Some responses below in no particular order:

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• I am in Southeast Michigan (Detroit Area), and I've been browsing around the web looking for classes. Maybe i'll get lucky and find something I can use my Post 9/11 GI bill to pay for.

...



Thanks again for all the great advice!

Phil

At this point, I'm not suggesting classes that you would need to pay for with your GI Bill. Check out some of the intro classes at places like Woodcraft.

Here are some of the classes listed at the Woodcraft in Sterling Heights
Basic Table-Saw Skills - Table-saw 101 with: Bob McGarry
Prepairing Stock Using The Jointer, Planer & Table Saw with: Bob McGarry
Joinery On The Table Saw - Table Saw 201 with: Bob McGarry
Intro To Woodworking with: Jim Bryan
Router 101 - Basic Router Operations with: Bob McGarry
Router 201 - Router Table Operations with: Bob McGarry
Basic Box Making with: Bob McGarry

Each are one or two day and look to cost between $60 and $120. I'm not suggesting all of them, but getting in person instruction and hands on feedback I think is invaluable. Even though I mucked about growing up using my Dad's tools (tools his father bought in the 30s and 40s), I signed up for the Intro to Woodworking class at the Addison, TX Woodcraft when I got serious about getting into woodworking (almost 20 years ago now). It was taught by a retired Navy Chief. He said he spent 20+ years in the service toting around a Shopsmith because that is all he had space for. Even though I "knew" how to do a lot of the operations, the subtle hints and tricks from getting hands on experience with a knowledgeable instructor was very valuable.

Not sure of the geography of Michigan (yes my Michigander friends always show me the hand for the shape of Michigan), but there looks like there is an active Woodworking club that meets in Ann Arbor. https://semiww.org/january-2020-meet...an-t17706.html

John

[PHILIP MACHIN]

I checked out the classes available at Woodcraft. The Sterling Heights location is more than an hour away, but that's no biggy for an all day class. I will definitely be taking advantage of that once I find a class that lines up with my work schedule.

If I end up going with the old grizzly table saw, I will probably spend a little bit to get a decent fence that I can carry with me to a new table saw later.

Thanks again for all the feedback and support. I can tell I've stumbled into a great community here.

[Scott Bernstein]

Consider watching some of the old episodes of Norm Abram's show (New Yankee Workshop). In one season he has a series of episodes each one focusing on a different tool...router, table saw, bandsaw, etc... These are a great introduction; a bit dated at this point but really not much has changed. In another season he makes an entire set of kitchen cabinets (I think one of the later seasons, maybe 18 or 20). In the first episode of that series on kitchens he again reviews some of the basics of the tools used.


I'll second what's been said. I agree that if you hope & plan to make good, lasting quality furniture a good quality table saw is very important. For me, the table saw and my combo jointer/planer machine are the ones I use most often. Keep in mind there are so many different styles and techniques to making furniture and using the machines. One machine can do so many different things depending on who is using it. What I do on my bandsaw may be very limited compared to what someone else does...and another person may not have one at all. I started with a small benchtop table saw and it was quite limiting on what I could do. Once i got a large cabinet saw, my projects improved a ton and I enjoyed it a lot more. Like many hobby woodworkers I have a full-time job and a family, thus time to learn woodworking techniques and time for making projects is limited to late nights on weekends. Going to live seminars and local woodworking clubs & shops is completely unpractical. It would be great of course to have time for that, but not possible for many people. You can learn an awful lot watching on-line videos, old episodes of Norm Abram's show, reading books, etc...and just learning-by-doing. After table saw and jointer/planer, I use my bandsaw quite often. Great for making rough cuts, re-sawing, and cutting curves and bevels. I do have a miter saw, which I could do without. I use it only for making quick or rough cuts on pieces when I have my table saw setup for a particular cut, for example. Router table and drill press are also fundamental tools in the shop and you can do a lot with those machines. Lastly, joinery is fundamental whether you work with machines or handtools. So many options... I use a pantorouter for mortise & tenons, box joints, and mortising for hinges. I also have a Festool Domino I use for larger pieces which may not fit easily onto the pantorouter (bringing the tool to the work, as they say). My Router Boss gets used for making raised panels and box joints in really long pieces.

So good luck and just start making furniture! One last suggestion...as you take on a new project, use that as an opportunity to learn a new technique or acquire a new piece of equipment. Does not need to be a large machine or complex technique every time, the point is to just keep progressing and learning..and have fun!

[BOB OLINGER]

Phil,

First, thank you for your service. Considering your question, I hope that you were ready for different opinions which is normal to this site. Just remember, all are sincere recommendations, just from different view points. IMO, I'd support several of the above recommendations by buying the best table saw you can for the money available. FWIW, I've been doing hobby woodworking for like 50 yrs. and never owned a band saw for about the first 30 or so. I got along good with at 9" Delta contractor TS for like 30+ yrs., then a 10" Delta contractor for about 5, then a SawStop cabinet which I really like. Then, I'd go with a jointer.

[Phil Mueller]

Not sure exactly where you’re located, but the Woodcraft in Canton also has classes, as well as the Rockler in Novi. The folks at Rockler (Woodcraft may as well) have also offered “private” lessons on various equipment they sell...just call and ask and I’m sure they would be happy to accommodate your schedule.

Another power tool store to consider is Glenn Wing Power Tools on Woodward Avenue in Birmingham, MI. They have been around for a long time and would be a good source for pros/cons of various machines.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Phil,
An excellent school to look into is the Marc Adams School in Franklin Indiana. It's 12 miles south of Indianapolis so would be a little under 5 hour drive from Detroit. Marc brings in the best instructors from all over and offers week long and weekend classes in the 40,000 square foot facility. Pretty much anything you want a class in it will be offered sometime during the school year (the printed catalog runs 155 pages).

I've taken a number of classes there and highly recommend it.

Cliff

[PHILIP MACHIN]

Not sure exactly where you’re located, but the Woodcraft in Canton also has classes, as well as the Rockler in Novi. The folks at Rockler (Woodcraft may as well) have also offered “private” lessons on various equipment they sell...just call and ask and I’m sure they would be happy to accommodate your schedule.

Another power tool store to consider is Glenn Wing Power Tools on Woodward Avenue in Birmingham, MI. They have been around for a long time and would be a good source for pros/cons of various machines.

Ahh, Canton is much closer but they didn't have any classes listed on their website. I work near Canton, so I'll drop by on my way home one night.

Also saw a Grizzly 1023 on craigs list with an upgraded fence and dust collection for 1000$. My wife would shank me though.

[william watts]

Buy the grizzly deal. Then decide on a furniture project you want to build. Then buy the hand, or power tools, as needed to make the project.

I have a table saw and a band saw. The band saw was the standard 14in delta. I didn't use it much. It was difficult to keep tuned, and was under powered. I now have a better band saw and use it increasingly more, but the cabinet saw is the main wood cutting tool in the shop.

I use both hand and power tools. Love using hand tools and have a lot of them, but still use the table saw for most cutting operations.

[Tony Latham]

4,000 fingers per year. Get a Sawstop.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...ty-finger-cut/

T

[PHILIP MACHIN]

4,000 fingers per year. Get a Sawstop.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...ty-finger-cut/

T

I don't disagree with you, but that's a lot of money. While it's difficult to put a value on your fingers, my wife's response when I mentioned my interest in a sawstop and the safety benefits was "find another hobby then". Difficult to argue with her stance.

With my budget I'd have to settle for a contractor saw too.

[mark mcfarlane]

Phil, One advantage of buying a good deal used, such as the one you have for $300, is you can turn around and sell the same equipment next year, or 5 years from now, for about the same price. Nothing lost while you learn, make some things, and decide what features are most important.

Most of us started with poor quality tools, learned how to tune them up, then decided if they warranted replacing or not.

I love my 5HP sliding table saw, but was also very happy making furniture on an old Delta contractors saw (after upgrading the fence) . I am kind of a safety nut, so I like the idea of a Sawstop or a Euro Slider (my choice), but if you read/watch a lot of safety articles/videos about using conventional table saws you can learn how to make safe cuts using jigs, adjusting where you stand, using fence standoffs, keeping your hands FAR away from the blade,...

[Doug Dawson]

I don't disagree with you, but that's a lot of money. While it's difficult to put a value on your fingers, my wife's response when I mentioned my interest in a sawstop and the safety benefits was "find another hobby then". Difficult to argue with her stance.

Did she watch the video? I showed it to my wife, and she was overcome with enthusiasm.

[Steve Demuth]

Did she watch the video? I showed it to my wife, and she was overcome with enthusiasm.

My wife asks me from time to time when I'm going to replace my current TS with a Sawstop. I think the fact that my old man had over the years managed to cut pieces off six of his ten fingers with various power tools has a lot to do with that.

It's nominally on my post-retirement retooling list, but some days I lean toward a Euro combination machine to replace 3 or 4 machines I've assembled from various Craigslist and Ebay listings over the years instead. Plus, I am actually at least as concerned about the bandsaw as I am the table saw as a source for devastating injuries. With the right tools/jigs, plus an integral riving knife and guard, I don't think the table saw is the most likely source of injury in a shop. Body parts just don't need to get in proximity with a TS blade if you're properly equipped and do things right.

[Vinito Caleb]

... i'm a new first time homeowner with lots of projects to do...

I'm a I'm a 4th time homeowner and I've been living in a construction zone since 1993. One of these days, soon I think, I'll be wrapping up a whole lotta loose ends and my current home will finally be trimmed out, floors finished, and electrical all sorted out. I'm kinda looking forward to finding out what "regular" people do in their spare time as opposed to me who seems to constantly be catching up instead of having a house that's mostly just a house instead of a constant major construction project.

I'm a bit surprised that so many use their band saws more than a table saw. It all depends on your process and they might very well be correct, but as for me I use my table saw (old Powermatic 66) all the time. I would also recommend you get a cabinet saw rather than the "bench saw on a stand" type of saw. The stability makes a huge difference in my opinion.
Also, I do like how the new saws come standard with a riving knife which makes things much safer. Mine has a splitter but only works on 90º cuts. The riving knife follows the blade at any angle.
I'd add that a 10" saw does pretty OK with a 2HP motor most of the time. You can bog it down occasionally, but I wouldn't say it's frustratingly wimpy. So if you're on a budget, maybe at a minimum take a look at the G0771 . If you can afford a nicer saw, then I'll confidently say that it's highly unlikely you'll regret it. The time wrestling with a problematic wonky saw is just a waste for the future you.
Once you get a good table saw, build a decent crosscut sled and an extension table (maybe a "clip-on", i.e. removable for portability). A table saw with a sled and extension table, and maybe a dado set if you don't mind the occasional fiddling, would get you through a ton of yer standard operations.

My $.02, which as a relative newby myself, take it for what it's worth. I am old though and can say I've concluded this from personal experience at least.