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Thread: The right saw for dovetails and crosscuts

  1. #16
    Join Date
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    Dovetails and Box Joints = Disston No. 4, 14", 9ppi.

    Crosscuts ( Mitre box version) = Disston No. 4, 11 ppi.....from a 4 x26" up to a 5 x 30".

    Hand saws= Disston D8, 20", 10 ppi, Atkins No. 65, 8ppi, 26" long. Disston D-8, 26" long, 11 ppi. Craftsman Chrome edge, 26" long, 5-1/2 ppi.

  2. #17
    I would not call the Veritas dovetail saw a serious saw. Serious saws have brass or iron backs. They also have the handle well up from the tooth line.

    Serious dovetail saws are eight to ten inches long.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    I like my Veritas dovetail saws, seriously. Of course I'm a hobbyist, not a professional. They are a good value. I know they are non traditional but not sure why the back is necessarily bad. It is a pretty advanced composite material
    .

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    I would not call the Veritas dovetail saw a serious saw. Serious saws have brass or iron backs. They also have the handle well up from the tooth line.

    Serious dovetail saws are eight to ten inches long.
    Warren, Im certainly not qualified to tell you what is or is not a "serious" dovetail saw.
    But with all due respect to your many years of experience Sir, I find that the Veritas Dovetail saw works just fine. It was a cost effective way for me to begin using handsaws without having to learn to recondition one. I have since moved on to an LN tapered dovetail saw, and while I prefer the LN, there is nothing wrong with the Veritas for hobbyist use.

    OP/Mike: If you want new saws, I recommend a Veritas DT and Veritas Crosscut. You can get both together for about $160 with free shipping.

    Merry Christmas to all!
    Fred
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Manning View Post
    A current thread comparing old saw with new boutique saws reminded me I have no knowledge regarding the use of handsaws. I have plans to start making some boxes and picture frames. I would like to have a nice saw to cut the dovetails and possibly making 45° crosscuts for picture frames. What kind of saw would do both those jobs? I thought I would want a backsaw but it seems there's all kinds of names for saws. Without knowing what I should be looking for I thought I'd ask the collective brain trust here. I prefer vintage tools and am frankly too cheap to buy boutique tools. I'd even ask what brands are considered best. From reading here I'd guess old Disston and Atkins are good but how old? Are these similar to Stanley planes where the quality started to suffer after WWII? Is there a sweet spot of dates on these old saws I should be looking for? Thanks for any and all thoughts/info!
    Mike, unless you are willing to restore (i.e. sharpen) a vintage saw, then you are better off buying something like the Veritas 14 ppi dovetail saw. This is an ideal starter dovetail saw as the teeth have relaxed rake and make starting easier. I think that it is extremely good value.

    I enjoy finding gems among the abandoned vintage saws, and will restore them. Here is one (cost me $10) ...



    However, the plate looked like this to begin, the brass back needed to be straightened, and the handle needed a little reshaping to make it fit my hand ...



    I'm trying to point out that it is very romantic to do this, and the result can rival the best from LN, etc. However, it is more work than it appears.

    For mitres and crosscut sawing you could use the dovetail saw, but I would suggest you look at a Japanese z-saw (dovetail type). These have a solid back, and leave a fine, clean cut. Of course, they cut on the pull, which is different to the Western saw.

    Merry Christmas from Vienna

    Derek

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Australia
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    Mike; if your not looking at restoring or building your own dovetail saw, and looking at a medium priced budget to purchase new, the following video from 4.min 26 is worthwhile viewing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1kF9ki74Ek



  7. #22
    I have both the Veritas and the Lie Nielsen. I find the LN much easier to cut with. The noise the Veritas saw makes annoys me and it is appreciably harder both to start and to finish a cut with.

  8. #23
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    Feb 2004
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    regards
    Quote Originally Posted by David Silverson View Post
    I have both the Veritas and the Lie Nielsen. I find the LN much easier to cut with. The noise the Veritas saw makes annoys me and it is appreciably harder both to start and to finish a cut with.
    Hi David

    What you suggest, regarding starting, is impossible from a technical perspective ... but I think I have a reason. Further, the video which Stewie links to appears to have misleading and incorrect information.

    Why do I say this? Simply because the LN has a much steeper raked teeth than the Veritas. I have owned and used a LN dovetail saw for about 20 years. Unless the saws have since changed their design, the teeth have zero to maybe 3 degrees of rake. The Veritas has 14 degrees of rake. Physically, one can easily feel this difference when starting a cut. The higher rake angle also produce a more aggressive and faster cut, which I find preferable (the LN is one of my go to saws). It is a trade off.

    Incidentally, there is a sort of review of the LN here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...en%20saws.html

    Joshua, in the video, also states the same thing as you - that the Veritas squeals. This is a symptom of the saw plate binding in the cut, which is a result of too little set. I found the same on one of my own Veritas saws. Too little set will also make the saw harder to push. I increased the set, and the sound went away. The other issue is that Joshua measures the plates on the video and stated that the Veritas is 0.02” and the LN is 0.015”. The LN should also be 0.02” (check their website), and it is evident that he was using the LN thin kerf saw ... in other words, comparing apples with oranges. A thin kerf saw will indeed cut more easily, but is not recommended for a beginner (more fragile).

    Merry Christmas from Vienna

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 12-26-2019 at 3:37 AM. Reason: added info

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    South Coastal Massachusetts
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    You have everything you need to get started.

    May I suggest you first practice on something like a 1/2" thick pine board (not 2x4) to get a feel for your saws.

    Here is a link to the tutorial I follow.

    FYI - I'm migrating to use of a similar saw for all my rough crosscutting and long rips cuts - but not for final joinery.

    https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/...japanese-saws/

  10. #25
    Derek I agree with your post but empirically I do find the LV more difficult. After your post I rechecked and still like the LN much better, perhaps once some wear and tear takes place the LV will settle down some. I have not used it much.

  11. #26
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    It's probably duller than the other one.

  12. #27
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    Quite right Tom. That would also account for the difference.

    Off to Prague ..

    Derek

  13. #28
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    Off Course, everybody knows we need all of the saw we can find.

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