Disston v Badaxe

[Derek Cohen]

I don’t have a Bad Axe handsaw (but a few backsaws). I do, however, have a pair of Wenzloffs — another modern premium saw maker. The Wenzloff is a great saw but I much prefer the pair of Disston D8 I have. Not sure why but these two Ebait, unrestored saws just cut sweet. I’ve seen suggested that it may be the steel that is the difference.

Tony, yours is an example of comparing apples with oranges. It is likely that the teeth have different rake angles and even different sizing. Take note of the angle and size you prefer for future reference.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Mueller]

I use handsaws almost exclusively for rough dimensioning lumber. My only experience is with vintage saws. As Derek mentioned, it’s hard to compare given the variables...sharpness, set, rake, fleam, etc. Any of the Disstons, set up properly, cut well. I also wouldn’t overlook Atkins. I have a few and they are every bit as nice as the Disstons.

This doesn’t really answer your question, except to say, with all the good vintage saws available, I’m not sure I’d even contemplate new.

[alan west]

I suspect they cut the same when sharp. But it is much easier psychologically to use a saw file on a $20 yard sale Disston than a $300 modern saw!

[Jim Matthews]

This is a very good point.

I owned, and sold a set of Blue Spruce chisels once.
I couldn't bring myself to hit them with a hammer.

[Jim Koepke]

This is a very good point.

I owned, and sold a set of Blue Spruce chisels once.
I couldn't bring myself to hit them with a hammer.

None of my chisels have been hit by a hammer since coming into my possession. Some have been walloped mightily by a mallet, but only the ones made to take a walloping.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

Hi Tony.
Please let us know what you think after you use that saw. I'd be interested in hearing.
Merry Christmas!
Fred

Saw arrived and it appears to be 14 pt., and is a name I do not recognize, probably a hardware store, with the backsaw made by one of the large sawmakers. Did several crosscuts in a Stanley 150 miter box: nice, clean cuts (cherry). Did same number of rip cuts, in same piece of cherry and again, nice clean cuts. Turns out the saw was sharpened hybrid by Matt Cianci, and based on the job he did with this saw, I would recommend him for anyone wanting to try a hybrid.

Now, the big question: would I spend hundreds of dollars on a new saw? Well.....probably not! It is convenient not having to reach for another saw out of the till. I do have a large Pax Sash backsaw, filed rip, that I've used for crosscuts quite often, just because I was too lazy, again to reach and the cuts were not"Class A" requirements!

Next big question, is there a place for a hybrid panel saw? Again, probably not, unless you end up as I did with my first attempt at sharpening, accidentally making a crosscut into a hybrid! The hybrid concept is nice for an occasional user, but any seriousness about the craft should be approached by tooling up in a traditional manner.

[lowell holmes]

I have several Disston saws including a D-12. It came with a broken handle and now has a curly maple handle.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...&ul_noapp=true

[Steve Hubbard]

The original poster asked for opinions from experienced and skilled sawyers. Well, I don't fit either category, but I do own some saws. When I took up woodworking in 2007, I purchased 2 PAX handsaws. Using them to rip and cut yellow pine 2 x 10s for a "work beam" to be placed over sawhorses was a miserable experience. Bought an Adria tennon saw. Awesome - a new experience. Took a handsaw skills class taught by Chris Schwarz. Used his Wensloff rip saw - another awesome experience. Maybe the Adria and Wentzloff saws were the first saws I used that were actually sharp. Bought a Lie Nielsen crosscut saw - with my skill set, did not work as well as the Adra or Wentzloff. Bought a Lee Valley crosscut saw for my son - in our hands, seemed to work well, especially for the price. Bought a dovetail saw by Wentzloff - again, with my skill set, did not work for me. I had always thought about purchasing a pair of Disstons or a pair of handsaws from one of the custom makers. Everytime I got close to doing so, the maker I was considering went out of business.

Bad Axe is owned by Mark Harrell. I attended a weekend saw sharpening class taught by Mark. It was a great class and I became a fan. It was interesting to hear him tell about the decision to use "Bad Axe" as the name of his new company. His knowledge of metalurgy and the history of saw making is impressive. In the class, I sharpened a 26 inch Disston that had been purchased at a home center, definitely not one of the "quality old Disstons" that the OP was asking about. It now cuts amazingly well. Truly remarkable difference. Bought a 14 inch hybrid backsaw from Bad Axe - best saw that I own. Handle fits my hand like a glove, starts easily, cuts smoothly. I am retired and can afford to buy toys now and then. Eventually decided to buy a pair of 24 inch Bad Axe handsaws, rather than old Disstons, because it felt good to support a new business that is making quality tools for woodworkers.

This post does not answer the question of the OP, but in the experience of this beginner, the Bad Axe saws handle as well as the Adria and Wentzloff offerings, and both of those are fine products. If you have the discretionary funds and are considering a Bad Axe, call Mark to discuss the options. He is approachable and willing to answer questions and offer advice.

[Jens Hoffmann]

This could be a fairly unpopular opinion, but the Bad Axe D-8 is the tool purchase that I regret the most.
I have a perfectly fine Disston handsaw, but when Bad Axe announced their D8 I just jumped on it because it was new, shiny, and well, made by Bad Axe.

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice saw. But it does absolutely nothing that my Disston won't do. And the Disston was a quarter of the price of the Bad Axe.
Unlike dovetail, tenon, or carcass saws, where you can argue that precision really matters, there is always some cleanup involved if I use my coarse rip saw, so having a premium tool is utterly pointless to me.
I would equate it to having a nice Veritas or Lie-Nielsen scrub plane. Awesomely great and precise and finely crafted tools, all of which are qualities that are not needed for the job.

If you want my two cents, I'd go with a nicely tuned vintage saw and spend the money you save on other things...

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Thanks for the contributions guys.

It doesn't sound like the Badaxe D8's are inferior to the old disstons in any tangible way. It appears that it's more a question of new and shiny vs old and character-full and the relative financial cost and value proposition. Value is of course way too subjective and personal to make any generalisations IMO. Although I do agree that, for me, the Badaxe D8's are a large chunk of cash - particularly with the current exchange rate and the additional $100USD in shipping cost - a D8 rip saw comes out to more than a Festool Power saw delivered - not that anyone on this forum would place value on a circ saw haha. Still didn't stop me buying one though and I don't think i'll regret it - I have never even seen a good quality old Disston in my travels so for me it was the better option - hopefully I can add some character and soul to the Badaxe over the next 50years of my woodworking adventures and pass it onto someone who will do the same (whenever the future generation isn't using cnc laser eyeballs to cut things...).

Cheers, Dom

[Eric Rathhaus]

Older Disston saws aren't that hard to find online. The trick, of course, is deciding if you trust the seller. I purchased a 26" No. 12 from Patrick Leach that is in very good condition. Came reasonably sharp and quite straight. Pete Taran sells Disstons tuned up. I purchased a No 12 from Pete for less than the price of a brand new Bad Axe D8.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Older Disston saws aren't that hard to find online. The trick, of course, is deciding if you trust the seller. I purchased a 26" No. 12 from Patrick Leach that is in very good condition. Came reasonably sharp and quite straight. Pete Taran sells Disstons tuned up. I purchased a No 12 from Pete for less than the price of a brand new Bad Axe D8.

I guess that's why I asked the question. If the price of a used saw (eg. Disston D12) is close to the price of a new Badaxe D8, is the D12 a 'better' saw from a functional perspective that makes this a bargain, or is the D12 considered a better proposition by some because it has collectibility value / character because of rarity and it's antique status? Because if it's just the cool or collectibility factor but both are the same functionally then to me the Badaxe seems like the better value - particulalry since I don't have to search and take the risk of getting something that isn't quite up to standard in terms of overall condition. I also don't need to restore - I can just get to work.

That said there is definitely something magical and cool about old and well used but also great condition and functional tools.

Cheers, Dom

[Jim Koepke]

One important thing to remember in these kinds of decisions Dominik is location, location, location. If you have mentioned your location it escapes me at the moment. It isn't listed in your profile. Your mention of exchange rates and the cost of shipping makes me guess you are not in North America.

For me, Southwest Washington state seems like slim pickings compared to other areas of my travels. Though it seems saws are available at most estate sales and such.

If you are in an area where finding saws in pawn shops, yard sales or second hand stores isn't common, then it may be better to spring for a known quantity rather than the proverbial on-line "pig in a poke."

jtk

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

One important thing to remember in these kinds of decisions Dominik is location, location, location. If you have mentioned your location it escapes me at the moment. It isn't listed in your profile. Your mention of exchange rates and the cost of shipping makes me guess you are not in North America.

For me, Southwest Washington state seems like slim pickings compared to other areas of my travels. Though it seems saws are available at most estate sales and such.

If you are in an area where finding saws in pawn shops, yard sales or second hand stores isn't common, then it may be better to spring for a known quantity rather than the proverbial on-line "pig in a poke."

jtk

Hi Jim,

I'm in Melboure, Australia. In my, albeit limited, experience, good quality old tools are not common in my travels. I'd basically be buying sight unseen from most likely the USA and given that I don't know exactly what I'm looking at, nor do images tell the full story, I feel that I'm likely to buy two or three times before I'm satisfied; and that doesn't appeal to me.

As you say, I'd rather know what I'm getting and pay a premium than try to save money and feel silly or even cheated. If I can see and hold something in my hands before buying then that would be a different story but alas I don't know the right places to look - nor do I have a heap of time to spend doing so.

In fact, now that I think about it, I only have two second-hand / old tools - two braces. The first I bought for a lot of money from a website and was very unhappy with and the other I picked up while i was in the UK for basically nothing and it works very well and I love. This is why I'd only buy old tools if I can handle them, and that isn't something i've been able to do often. So I buy new.

Cheers, Dom

[Tony Zaffuto]

In the end, any saw purchased, will need sharpened. Also, if used, all saws will eventually show "war wounds", as well as these LN or LV planes, chisels or whatever.