EM9300 got pretty cold...

[Jeremy Patrick]

I have a can of the EM9300 that got a little colder than room temperature for a month or so. I am figuring it got down to around 40 to 50°. No freezing that I know of.
I am doing some passive heating Via the furnace vent and it seems like it’s loosening up a bit, but I wanted to ask if anyone has experience with this particular product and if once it gets cold it’s shot, or if warmed up like I am doing it should be fine to use.
Thanks

[Mike Henderson]

Once you get it warmed up, I'd put some on scrap and see what it does. My guess is that it will be okay.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

It should be fine...

[Jeremy Patrick]

Got it.
I figured if it was completely done for it would be somewhat obvious when opening the can and trying to stir, viscous or not.

[Jeff Monson]

You should be fine at those temps. I had some EM6000 that came frozen a couple years back, it was garbage after that and it was very obvious once it thawed that is was not useable.

[Jim Becker]

The Target Coatings products are actually pretty resilient. I still have some "positively ancient" Oxford Spray Lacquer (predecessor to EM6000) that's still usable...I don't put it on client projects, but for shop utility, it will eventually get used up. I certainly don't recommend folks keep stuff forever and if there actually was freezing I'd want to have a conversation with the company to ascertain what the effect might be before trying to use it, but merely "cold" shouldn't be an issue. Just be sure it's warmed up to the stated use temperature range before putting it in your gun to spray.

Prior to getting my mini-split in the shop, I typically moved the water borne finish from my shop building to a closet in our home where I keep house paint for the cold weather months to assure nothing had a chance to get too cold and to also make it faster to setup for finishing since the product would already be warm.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Wanted to follow up on this.
I brought the 9300 in the house for 2 days and started spraying with it today.
I’m curious though, compared to the 6000 this stuff is thick. I have been able to spray it with a compressor based gun setup after A bit of tinkering with gun settings but I wanted to ask if it is normally a very thick product.
So far it’s laying down wonderfully so with the few things I’ve sprayed I’m thinking between the temp and gun settings I’m heading in the right direction.
Was thinking I could try and spray it with my Earlex 5500 but with how thick it is I’m glad I have the other guns.
Any words of wisdom on this?

[Art Mann]

Use thinner.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Which thinner are you referring to?

[Jim Becker]

You can add up to 10% water to the EM9300 if it needs to be "thinner" to spray properly thought your gun. But if it's laying down nicely already, you may not need to do that. EM9300 is a pretty different formulation than EM6000. EM6500 (tinted) is a bit thicker than the EM6000, too. Different gun setups are going to be indicated as such.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Got it. I figured water would be a possibility since it’s water based but wanted to ask.
If I were to try it in my earlex then I can’t see any other way than to thin. Have been eyeing that qualspray unit you have mentioned Jim, but for the time being I’m getting used to a HF gun. A lot more and different adjustments than the earlex but I’m getting the hang of it.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Slight deviation on the topic:
Is there or should there be a difference in appearance when spraying 9300 over 6000?
One piece I was working with had 6000 sprayed on one side but I tried doing straight 9300 on the other. Both sides had a base of shellac.
I noticed on the one side with the 6000 the end result seemed not quite as smooth. I put down equal layers as far as I remember so it should be the same volume on each side.
Could be nothing, but wanted to ask for the next using 9300.

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

"Water borne" not "water based". Based is for the solvent which is not water. Water is the carrier here. This is kinda important because it goes to the heart of why thinning with water is limited. The actual finish molecules get spread out more as you add water and beyond a certain point the actual finish quality degrades because of that. This is exactly what happens when builders get their painters to massively thin out the paint to save money so home buyers have to completely repaint once they move in, and not just because they hate the color.

EM6000 and EM9300 are very different finishes and the same number of coats for each may very well not feel (and look) the same. A good part of "the art" as I've learned is really zeroing in on the gun setup so that things are as optimal as possible for the specific finish that's being applied at the time. There is also a very narrow range between "how much is too much" for a coat, too. I've screwed some things up pretty badly in that respect with impatience on my part. Using an extender/retarder can also help things settle dow a little better, too, if it's not flowing out and drying to quickly, resulting in orange peel and a lot of manual work to level.

BTW, be sure that your wax free shellac is as light a coat as possible to do the sealing. Too heavy of a layer of shellac can lead to nasty cracking of the water borne finish. Trust me on that, please...

[Jeremy Patrick]

Ah, I see my wording mistake. Had the concept of water borne down for this but not the right words down for describing what I was thinking!
For this and other questions regarding finishes I’ve always been leery of thinning exactly as you mentioned can happen if done too much. Since the only setup I’ve had until recently was my earlex, there are certainly a lot of things that it just doesn’t have the oomph to do. But not having enough experience I saw it to easy to try and alter a liquid to suit the machine than what is best for the project.
Anyway, when I was spraying the 9300 I tried to make sure the layers weren’t too thin or thick, but I know it’s continuous learning process especially since I’m still trying to fine tune the gun settings.

Now the biggest question is how you would describe the shellac being too heavy of a layer?
Obviously not puddling when you’re done spraying but what is your visual indicator that just enough has been sprayed for the purpose of sealing?

[Jim Becker]

For solvent based products, thinning with the solvent is a "time honored" way to help adjust things so one gets what they are expecting out of their gun. Thinning is a little harder to do with water borne products so any time you can adjust at the gun to get the atomization, flow and pattern you want without thinning, that's great. You can't always get there, so a little water (distilled preferably) if necessary and maybe a little retarder/extender can help one get there. The gun you mentioned has really helped with this in my shop, but I still have a lot to learn for sure.

For the shellac question, if I need to use it (to seal over oil or to add a little warmth that isn't there in the water borne product like EM6000 (it is there with EM93000 and EM2000), I spray no more than two very thin, quick coats "just to seal" as a barrier coat for the former situation or to add a little color for the latter. (Honestly, for the guitar work I'm starting to get into, I'm not using the shellac for color anymore...I'm tinting the finish with a touch of honey amber dye. ) I hit the piece with the shellac, let it dry for a bit and then hit it with a little 400-600 paper to knock off any fuzzies and then spray the first coat or two of the water borne product. I hit that with the 400-600 paper to get any additional nubbies and then spray until I'm done spraying, leaving reasonable time between coats. Aside from the guitar projects where I'm spraying a huge number of coats to build things up for buffing out, I generally spray 3-4 coats of the water borne and call it a day. Rarely is more needed.