Gone metric?

[roger wiegand]

Just going metric because you don't like fractions is mind boggling. You will be doing metric to inch and foot conversions and back again, at least mentally, more probably with a calculator for the rest of your life. This just makes things worse, not better. The only people who like metric are either born into it, or use it for scientific endeavours. Scientists are smart enough to separate their science from everyday life. JMO. YMMV

Sorry, but that's just not true. The needs for conversion are few and far between, and to be avoided except in some extreme, unusual circumstance. Most of the world (both the English and metric sides) gets on just fine without having to ever do any conversions. It's been about six months since I took my shop fully metric, to date I have not yet had occasion to calculate a conversion. Sitting here I can't even think of an example of a case where I'd need to calculate a conversion in my furniture making and turning. Perhaps I'd need to do it if I needed to convert published plans, but I don't, as I draw my own. Yes, I have some tools that are marked in even imperial units (eg mortise chisels), but I don't actually care what the measurement is to several decimal places as I fit the tenon to the actual hole I've made in the wood, not to some abstract measurement. I think of that chisel as being ~12.5 mm, that it might actually be 0.5 inches makes no practical difference to my work. I've never measured it to know what its true dimension is-- it could easily actually be 12.7 mm and just marked 1/2".

If you assume plywood or any other pre-dimensioned material is an exact measurement of either sort you will soon be sadly disappointed-- if it matters you'd better put a tape or a caliper on it to find out what it actually is in your favorite units.

The only times I've had to do any conversions in recent times has been in cooking, where it's even more complicated as one needs to weigh stuff to make the shift from recipes given in cups and tablespoons to grams. But, there again, especially in baking, one's outcomes become more reproducible with fewer errors once you have a "metrified" recipe.

[John Gornall]

School was imperial, college science metric, engineering imperial, went to work for a Swedish company metric, moved to New Zealand, imperial, on to Austrailia metric, back to Canada both, to New Zealand which converted to metric while I was there, back to Canada where anything goes and did some work in the USA imperial. I can work in either. But my woodworking is imperial, I like fractions as I can think in 16ths or halfs or whatever suits. And I commonly use decimal inches. My neighbour recently gave me a really hard time about not being metric in my wood shop then asked me to rip a board 14 1/2 centimeters wide. He didn't get why I was lauging.

[Frank Pratt]

Just going metric because you don't like fractions is mind boggling. You will be doing metric to inch and foot conversions and back again, at least mentally, more probably with a calculator for the rest of your life. This just makes things worse, not better. The only people who like metric are either born into it, or use it for scientific endeavours. Scientists are smart enough to separate their science from everyday life. JMO. YMMV

Why on earth would I be converting back & forth all the time? I do occasionally have to do a conversion if there is some imperial measure that for some reason has to be incorporated into the project, but that is very rare. I don't understand your logic at all. Perhaps you could explain.

[Brian Holcombe]

I don’t understand the opposition to fractions. It’s handy for joinery layout. I could use decimal inches for everything but I always use fractions for layout, often I convert to decimal inches for processing the joinery but those numbers are hardwired into my mind.

[roger wiegand]

It may be an age thing. I used to be able to do it in my head, but now I find I have to stop and write it down and/or pull out a calculator when I want to know what a third of 9/32's plus 7/64ths is. Enjoy it while you've got it!

[Myk Rian]

I bought a dozen inch/mm dial calipers as gifts for the kids and grandkids I think may use them. They never need batteries,
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[Brian Holcombe]

It may be an age thing. I used to be able to do it in my head, but now I find I have to stop and write it down and/or pull out a calculator when I want to know what a third of 9/32's plus 7/64ths is. Enjoy it while you've got it!

1/3 of 9 is 3/32 which is 6/64 +7/64 = 13/64. Fractions

[Ted Reischl]

I use both, but I am not fond of metric. Here is one reason, wrenches:

Inch . Metric

1/4 . . . . .6mm
. . . . . . . .7mm
5/16. . . . 8mm
. . . . . .. .9mm
3/8. . . .. 10mm
7/16 . . .11mm
1/2. . . . 12mm
. . . . . . .13mm
9/16. . . .14mm
. . . . . . 15mm
5/8. . . .16mm
11/16. . 17mm
. . . . . . 18mm
3/4. . . .19mm

Notice that it takes 5 more wrenches in a standard set to cover the range from 1/4 to 3/4. Why? So we can all pay more for a wrench set? Or be hunting for the correct size longer?

And think about this, it is not just 5 wrenches. A wrench set is pretty useless if you only have one of each size unless you like rounding things off with an adjustable wrench. So you wind up buying 10 more wrenches to cover the same range. Oh, it gets worse, you also have to buy all those extra sizes in sockets, both standard and deep.

Then there is the other little matter. Scales. 10 tiny divisions between each major division? Oh, that makes it easy, sure. It is like having to always read the 1/32's on an imperial scale. Imagine what that would be like, no 1/16ths, no 1/8ths, no 1/4's, just ten itty bitty hard to see marks.

BTW, what ever happened to the "decimeter"? Never see or hear anyone use those at all. Just millimeter, centimeters and meters. Guess it was too complicated for people to remember which was which, huh?

Now don't get me wrong, there are some things I like about metric sizes. End mills are one of them.

But this whole business about "oh, it is so much easier to divide". Uh huh, at some point you wind up with decimals. I will admit that if something is designed from the ground up in metric without having to use standard off the shelf materials it is somewhat easier to work with. But if you want to mill up a 2X4 to various thicknesses you start out with 38.1 mm.

It makes more sense to work with an inch, divide it into ten units and go from there, at least you would be able to see the little lines and even put a bigger on at the .5 mark.

Division is much easier for me in imperial units. Something is 5/8 of an inch and I need half that. Simple, just double the denominator and you have half, 5/16. 1/4 of 5/8? Easy. Multiply the denominator by 4 and you have the answer, 5/32.

I spent my career working with fractions and have most of the decimal equivalents committed to memory.

But like I said above, the part I really do not like is having to purchase more tools to cover the same range as an imperial set covers. No wonder today's auto mechanics need those big honking tool boxes! If cars were still in metric they would only need about half the space, LOL.

BTW, I just looked on Amazon. Unbelievable! They charge more for an SAE wrench set with fewer tools that covers the same range as a metric set with more wrenches. Marketing people:::::::::::grrrrrrr::::::::::::

[Bob Falk]

I stick with imperial because it keeps my mind sharp doing all those conversions. Actually, I am too lazy to change.

[Jim Becker]

Yep, over a year ago I went metric and haven't looked back, at least for my own work. I have some client work that I necessarily need to do in Imperial because of specifications and sometimes provided artwork...this is largely subcontract stuff so I have to work in the same dimensions as the client or it gets to be a difficult conversation. I don't like mixing two measurement systems in the same project. The transition was uncomfortable for a little while, but I persisted and now I'm starting to think in metric without having to pause as much to "mentally convert" approximates for visualization. I know what 200, 400, 600, 800, etc., mm represents "in space" now, more or less. Most of my tooling (router bits for the CNC) is Imperial size, but that really doesn't matter because the software and machine deals with that transparently.

There have been a number of debates around this over time here. IMHO...it doesn't matter what an individual prefers and uses as long as they are consistent and avoid mixing systems as much as reasonably possible. Neither metric or Imperial or whatever are "inferior" to another. They are just units of measure. Use what you like and don't be afraid to try alternative, either if it's appropriate, required for a project or just to test the waters. At a minimum, I believe it's a very good idea for anyone to at least be "conversant" in the alternative measuring system simply because at some point, most, if not all of us, are going to be interacting with someone using the alternative. It's a little harder to do that for many folks growing up in North America (primarily the US) because we never learned metric in school or even if we did, there was nothing that forced us to use it. It's the standard in many industries while often "hidden" from the general public, too. Many folks in other geographies have been exposed to both metric and Imperial to a greater degree.

[Tony Latham]

Anyone converted most of their operations to metric? I'm really getting tired of dealing with fractions, and one millimeter equaling about 1/25" seems plenty accurate enough.

I'm sticking with inches. Fractions can be a pain but I've got a fraction calculator on my phone that fixes that has fixed that issue. I think it's called FractionCalculator. 5/16" + 7/8" = 1-3/16".

[Rod Sheridan]

Ted, as you’re aware, most of the tooling in the world is metric.

That can result in premium prices for oddball tools such as Whitworth or Imperial.

You’ve also left out a lot of the fractional wrench sizes which increment in 32nds of an inch, so your comparison isn’t actually factual.

I would have to spread both sets out and count them, however I have approximately the same quantity of wrenches and sockets in both my Metric and Imperial sets.

I may even have more in the several British sets it requires to have a complete array......Regards, Rod

[mreza Salav]

As somebody who grew up metric and learned inches later (and uses both) I never really understood why working with one is difficult because of having tools etc in the other. For example, why dado sets of 3/4" is important when your plywood is never 3/4" really and I always cut those things to fit. So all it matters is to pick a system and stick to it in a project all along. All my tape measures are dual metric/standard.

[Alex Zeller]

Never realized it was much of a problem for people. When you deal with fractions on a regular basis it just makes sense to most people. Metric is nice as well but the numbers start to get big quickly. 6' 2 1/2" is much simpler for me to visualize than 1892 millimeters. Or 1.892 meters. Another example is measuring a storefront opening that's 48' wide. That's 14.6304 meters. When everything related to construction in the US in inch and foot dimensions that's what you grow accustom to (even yards aren't widely used).

I look at a cut off I can quickly say to myself that's 4' long. I'm sure if grew up and spent my whole life using metric measurements it would be just the opposite. I can remember the debate back in the 70s about it. Probably had we switched by now nobody would think twice. But I can't see us ever switching in the future. I even have a set of British Withworth wrenches needed to work on a triumph motorcycle.

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Alex! If the metric SYSTEM is so good use it ! Seen to many plans with dimensions like: 27, 572 mm.