dust collection upgrade 3.0 (HF > woodtek?) question

[Bob Riefer]

Hi!
As some may have seen, I've been in a table saw wrestling match that has entailed rebuilding a cabinet saw, buying a new cabinet saw, and reorganizing my shop to accommodate the new beast.

Last year, prior to this round of effort, I had taken the time to swap out all 4" PVC piping in my shop for 6" PVC. I looked to make the shortest runs possible, used sweeping bends (rather than 90's) wherever feasible, and reduced as close to machines as possible (or didn't reduce at all such as behind the miter saw).

My longest run is about 25 feet and most of the runs are over 15 feet. I only run one machine at a time, and only open one blast gate at a time.

I also built a Thien "tophat" that drops a lot of material into a drum. Exhaust runs directly out the side of my barn where it goes into a 2nd drum outside my barn (I call it the "muffler") that is outfit with a filter bag and a louvered (and oversized 9") exhaust vent (I did this to capture the little bit of dust that was coating side of building/neigbor's car, and to reduce noise output... works very well actually).

I have the good ol' Harbor Freight dust collector modified to fit directly into the tophat and exhaust setup without reducing. I removed the impeller cover and built a replacement that accepts 6" pipe. Same thing on the exhaust side.

I use (junky) plastic blast gates where I reduce to 4" at machines (I had the gates on hand already from previous setup). I use shop made gates on machines where I stay at 6" the whole way (miter saw, jointer, drill press)... I think these work pretty well actually.

So here's the rub... I'm just not getting adequate suction to keep the shop somewhat clean. I collect a lot of dust, but leave a ton behind too.

Since I'm in shop re-org mode anyways, it's good timing to try to improve the setup.

My thoughts are:
- Micro leaks throughout the system add up to big impact (proposed solution: caulk all PVC joints, consider swapping out junky blast gates)
- The HF unit just ain't up to the task (proposed solution... I could buy a bigger / stronger DC)


I think my first idea can't hurt, so I'll go ahead and teach the kids to use a caulk gun :-) and purchase some better gates.

The second one... A used Woodtek 3 HP dust collector has popped up locally. Model = 864-381. Looks like that one is hard to find these days, but this model appears very similar from some googling. LINK Would you anticipate that this $350 investment will significantly improve my situation? (I'll admit that the CFM numbers etc. fly over my head)

Edit... here's a pic where you can see the longest runs and the tophat setup. Added tophat close up and muffler pic.

[Bob Riefer]

Yikes, the deal moved fast and I pulled the trigger. Having trouble determining whether this was a smart move or not as specs on the Woodtek 864381 are tough to find, but I do see some solid evidence that it's a good machine and should be an upgrade vs. my HF model.

(I can't wait to get back to woodworking instead of shop fixing!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[Bob Riefer]

Unit arrives in the morning. Initial plan is to scrap the top hat and also the exterior exhaust (I heat and cool full time these days) and just hope that single stage with two filter bags is sufficient.

(we should design an excel spreadsheet where variables can be added entered and a budget, medium, and price is no option recommendation would be returned. All this uncertainty and numbers galore is no fun, nor are most capable of figuring it out)

[Tom M King]

I don't know the model number, but my portable DC is a Woodtek 3hp four bagger. It's pretty much a beast for moving air. Woodtek is the store brand for Woodworkers Supply. I have at least four of their machines. They come out of the same Taiwanese factory that most other woodworking machines come out of. Woodworkers Supply is really good to deal with, and has good parts backup.

If you use the Woodtek bags, make sure you are using the thick bags. I like those better than any other filter bags I've ever used, but in the past few years, they've started selling the machines with cheaper bags, and the thick ones are a more expensive option.

You did fine with the purchase, and will be pleased, and surprised with how much air you're going to be moving now.

[Bob Riefer]

Nice. This was just the post I was hoping for

[Bob Riefer]

I got the Woodtek today, and it must be practically new. It's the most spotless thing I've ever seen come out of a workshop.

The footprint it about 20 inches longer than I'd like, which got me to thinking...

The tool is built to exhaust through two filter bags (above), and catch chips in two bags (below)...

But, in my case, I'm pulling through a thien top hat... I've been running through this top hat for over a year, and remember that my exterior exhaust for that setup goes into a filter bag... that filter bag has about a bag of flour in it after a full year's worth of dust collection.

In other words, not much makes it past the top hat.

SO... Instead of having two rings (each with a dust filter above and collection bag below), I'm going to remove the 2nd ring altogether... On the first ring, I'll install both bags. The bottom one will catch a tiny bit of material and also act as a filter, and the top one will do it's usual job.

Anyone have any qualms with this brainstorm?

[Tom M King]

Actually, it exhausts through four bags, but the bottom two will fill up, if you let them. It does draw a lot more air when all four bags are empty. It does pretty good, even when the bottom bags are getting full, but there is a noticeable difference. It's still going to move WAY more air than your HF unit did, like you're talking about.

Hopefully, you got the thick, felt bags, and not the thin ones that you can see the weave pattern in.

[Bob Riefer]

Woahhhhh. Just did a quick test of the new unit. Cats, dogs, small children, and hand tools had better watch out. Through my longest run it emptied a shoe box full of saw dust set 6 inches from the pipe opening. It was like a tornado

edit: this is with all 4 bags as suggested above. Thank you for the tip!

also... thinking this unit needs its own 30 amp circuit. Yes?

[Tom M King]

Don't think about cleaning the cross pieces over the intake with it running! Sometimes, when running a straight knife planer, the long pieces of shavings will get folded over those bars, and can clog it up. I don't remember what circuit it asks for, but I do run mine on a 30 amp circuit.

[Bob Riefer]

After about 8 hours worth of adjusting my shop and piping to accommodate the new DC, I was able to do a true test (I’m borrowing the receptacle that my table saw usually uses and I’ll be running 30 amp dedicated circuit this week).

Wow wow wowwwwww. The amount of suction at each tool is easily quadruple what it was. My big construction tape measure almost got sucked into the port at the longest run!!!!

I can finally start woodworking again!!!

[Bob Riefer]

Alright, this part of the 3 part saga is almost there now too.

I let myself get sucked down (pun intended) rabbit hole of the Pentz website. So much information, we should create a cliff's notes version :-)

But, at some point, it becomes analysis paralysis... so I just started making some decisions and ordering stuff. I want to be healthy, but I have a budget (of both time and money) and realistically only get to spend 10 hours a week (max!) in my shop anyways. I just gotta roll the dice for now.

So in addition to the 6" pipe and Woodtek 3HP dust collector upgrades that were already in place/underway, I have now purchased the Super Dust Deputy XL which should arrive by Christmas (timing of that was unintentional.. but hey, Merry Christmas to me). I also am replacing all 4 bags on the Woodtek with 1 micron bags (accepting and understanding that there's some debate about various bags and their reported filtration capabilities).

Most of my tools take 6" pipe all the way to the tool, but at some point I can adjust a couple more (easiest win is the cabinet saw... router table and bandsaw would be good next candidates to consider).

I'll post pics as I get it all setup.

[Bob Riefer]

After a nice chat with Dick from Wynn Environmental, I ended up modifying the Woodtek setup so that one of the rings now serves basically as a plenum box that a cartridge filter will be affixed to once it arrives in the mail in a couple days.

Here's my nearly complete setup. The 6" PVC pipes have been sealed with window flashing tape (which I find to be permanent, yet removable), and I was able to shorten runs and optimize to nearly eliminate any 90 degree bends.

Once I get the filter in place, I'll post again with a performance report.

(edit... sorry, not sure why pics are sideways... they look fine on my laptop)

[Jeremy Bakel]

Looks awesome I just picked up a Jet DC-1900 3hp from craigslist and want to do something similar. How's the performance?

[Bob Riefer]

Update. This setup works great! I’ve emptied my blue bin three times so far and there’s less than a 1/4 cup of dust in the bucket under the filter. Not bad!