Laguna Fusion Tablesaw Issues

[Matt Halpin]

IÂ’ve been dealing with an issue with my Laguna Fusion classic table saw for over two years now and wanted to throw it out there to see if anyone has any advice. IÂ’ve spent way too much time searching to see if anyone else has had this issue but canÂ’t find anything about it. All I read is how great these saws are which I admit is a little frustrating when mineÂ’s not working.

IÂ’ll go to turn the table saw on and get a low hum and a little wiggle of the blade. Within a couple seconds the thermal switch mounted to the motor will pop. At the time this issue began I had absolutely zero experience dealing with induction motors so off to the internet I went.

The saws were still relatively new at the time so finding anything about them at all online was rare. I did however read about an issue with the early runs of the Fusion seriesÂ’ thermal switch being faulty so that was my first diagnosis. I called Laguna who told me that that was true but that my serial number was past the point of that particular issue. They suggested to me that it might instead be the run capacitor.

At the time this happened I was just a month outside of my warrantee. They were super nice about it and shipped me out a new one free of charge anyway . I was able to install it easy enough even though it meant removing the motor from the saw. After I installed it I gave it a test run outside the saw and it ran just fine. However once mounted back in the saw, with the spindle under load, the problem continued. Only this time I could get a few rotations before the cutoff engaged. I found that I could sometimes persuade the saw to run by cycling on/off/on. Being in the middle of a small production run, I went with this until I had time to address it again.

This was how I ran for about six months before that process stopped working. I did a bunch more research and found out it was more likely the run capacitor that was the problem rather than the start capacitor but that the coils should be checked for burning as well.

I actually had the balls to disassemble the motor to check the coils and everything looked good. I searched all over for the equivalent run capacitor (35uf 300VAC) and couldnÂ’t find one. ItÂ’s apparently unique to this motor and is much smaller than any other capacitor in its rating. So I had to call Laguna to get a new run one. I got one for like $24, installed it, and the saw ran like new. For about another 6 months.

IÂ’m back where I started and I know itÂ’s not normal to have to replace capacitors on a motor this frequently. Has anyone has this issue before? with Laguna or any other saw?

[Stewart Lang]

I don't have a Laguna Fusion, nor had any issues like that. But you're right, it's definitely not normal to being replacing capacitors on a TS motor that frequently. Over the 3 TS's I've had, I don't think I've ever had to replace a single part on any of them.

I've heard a lot over the past few years about Laguna's build quality going down, just from my time on forums and social media. I can't really say anything about the truth to that, since I've only owned one Laguna machine. Their newer 1.5hp cyclone dust collector, and it worked fine, except the remote quit one day (however they were super nice and shipped me a new one for free, even though I was the second owner). However in your situation, if it were me, and this is just my opinion, I'd sell it off locally and buy a Grizzly, or find a local deal on something nice. When a machine gives you that much trouble repeatedly, it's time to move on to something else.

[Paul F Franklin]

The other element in this equation is the start switch inside the motor. It connects the start winding when the motor is not turning and disconnects it after the motor comes up to speed. It's possible the switch isn't opening causing the start winding to remain energized. This can quickly cause the motor to overheat and also can damage the start capacitor since it is not designed for continuous duty like the run capacitor. The more typical failure mode for the start switch is for it to get plugged up with sawdust or whatever and then the motor won't start turning, but I suppose it could fail closed as well.

If that's not the problem, then my guess from afar is that the capacitors are undersized for the current they are carrying; you mention the small case sizes. Motor caps are rated in terms of capacity and voltage, but also must be sized for the AC current they will pass. Laguna may have cut it too close on the capacitors they chose. Is there room for physically larger caps with the same capacitance and voltage ratings?

Since you don't see many complaints about this on the net, it's also possible you just got a bad motor; I'd press Laguna to make this right since you have a history of problems with the saw.

[Matt Halpin]

The other element in this equation is the start switch inside the motor. It connects the start winding when the motor is not turning and disconnects it after the motor comes up to speed. It's possible the switch isn't opening causing the start winding to remain energized. This can quickly cause the motor to overheat and also can damage the start capacitor since it is not designed for continuous duty like the run capacitor. The more typical failure mode for the start switch is for it to get plugged up with sawdust or whatever and then the motor won't start turning, but I suppose it could fail closed as well.

If that's not the problem, then my guess from afar is that the capacitors are undersized for the current they are carrying; you mention the small case sizes. Motor caps are rated in terms of capacity and voltage, but also must be sized for the AC current they will pass. Laguna may have cut it too close on the capacitors they chose. Is there room for physically larger caps with the same capacitance and voltage ratings?

Since you don't see many complaints about this on the net, it's also possible you just got a bad motor; I'd press Laguna to make this right since you have a history of problems with the saw.

On the first part, your talking about the centripetal switch. That was definitely something I considered and its clean and functional from what I can tell. For what a crap motor this thing might be, the dust shroud on the fan side of the motor is pretty solid.

As far as the capacitor size, the run capacitor is uniquely small from what I can tell. It’s rated at 35uf at 300VAC which I literally can’t find anywhere. The closest thing I can find is at Grainger is a 35uf at 370VAC and its a about 1/4” bigger at its diameter so the housing won’t fit it. The guy at Grainger suggested I just run leads away from the motor and mount it on the saw casing. I didn’t want to but, all out of better options, I tried it temporarily and the saw is still doing the same thing so I’ll be returning that.

Another thing I forgot to mention above is how warm the power cable gets while I’m trying to start the saw. I’m sure it has to be connected but figured I’d throw it out there.

Is there anything else environmentally that could cause this you think? Procedurally? I try to use clean sharp blades and clean out the saw regularly. I’m by no means perfect but one would assume that I’m not the only one who skips a cleaning or two and that if that was the issue there’d be an epidemic of saw failures out there.

I reached out to Laguna today with basically the same thing I posted above. Basically telling them that I’ve outlived my warrantee with these bandage fixes and am expecting a permanent resolution. I tried to be nice despite how over the moon pissed I am so hopefully they come back with something. If not I’ll be selling the saw and getting something else. It’s a shame because I’ll no doubt be out some money.

[John Lanciani]

All of your symptoms point to either the start capacitor or the centrifugal switch. There is also a chance that you have damaged the start winding now by using it this way for so long.

[Alex Zeller]

If it was me I would replace the start capacitor and the start switch. If you are burning up caps then it suggests that there's another problem with your motor. Start caps don't like to be a part of the circuit for very long. If the switch isn't disengaging quickly the cap will overheat and die. Other than those two parts I'm not sure what else you can repair on a motor. You could do a search to see if there's any electric motor repair places near you. They would be able to test the motor and hopefully fix it vs you just replacing parts in hopes you find the problem. Of course it could be just easier to replace the motor (hopefully it has a standard mount).

[Rod Sheridan]

As others have said, the start capacitor or the centrifugal starting switch.

If either the capacitor or switch are open when you try to start the motor, it looks like a very low impedance as there's no CEMF generated, so the motor current is many times the rated motor current.

This causes the thermal overload trip and the wiring becoming warm.

Regards, Rod.

[Tony Shea]

This might be a dumb suggestion but have you checked your table saw arbor and arbor bearings. To me it sounds like there is too much load on this motor if it runs fine outside of the table saw. I know nothing about this saw therefore don't know the configuration of how the arbor is tied to the motor. On a typical saw, with your belt removed you should be able to spin your arbor completely free and should have zero hard spots with no play.

I've recently replaced my arbor bearings on my saw and seeing how the saw runs now I should have done this years ago.

[Matt Halpin]

This might be a dumb suggestion but have you checked your table saw arbor and arbor bearings. To me it sounds like there is too much load on this motor if it runs fine outside of the table saw. I know nothing about this saw therefore don't know the configuration of how the arbor is tied to the motor. On a typical saw, with your belt removed you should be able to spin your arbor completely free and should have zero hard spots with no play.

I've recently replaced my arbor bearings on my saw and seeing how the saw runs now I should have done this years ago.

It doesn’t sound like a dumb suggestion to me. The capacitors are definitely symptom of a larger problem. I’m game with the centripetal switch being the issue but it looks clean and seems to open and close freely. Again I’ve never seen a one I know for sure is functional so it’s hard for me to say.

When I noticed that the motor runs when disengaged from the rest of the saw I considered the load being too high for some reason. I’m not totally sure what normal feels like though. Should it spin on its own after a good push? I will say that the motor has a low hum to it when it’s running off the belt but again I can’t tell if that’s normal because I’m used to hearing it spinning gears and a blade with that higher frequency. I figured it could be the case vibration that added the lower tone.

Already this is more engagement than I was expecting so it’s awesome you guys are helping out. Can’t tell you how nice it is to spring this stuff off other people.

[Tony Shea]

A motor running all by itself should have a slight low frequency sounding hum. I assume it to be normal but without hearing it first hand it's hard to say. I am not real sure what is normal with your spindle spinning freely either. It depends on tolerances, what types of bearings are used, and the overall design. My table saw arbor had two ZZ bearings which means double shielded. Brand new shielded bearings should spin somewhat freely but after use they tend to fill with saw dust and loose that nice free spin. Bad bearings should show some resistance and most times you can feel a small click inside them where something has worn. This small amount of wear can cause lots of issues, all stemming from too much heat build up which ultimately burns up the grease inside them creating massive amounts of friction at those speeds.

I installed new sealed bearings to keep dust out. These bearings are not rated at as high of a speed as shielded but still within spec of my saw. Sealed bearings don't spin as freely out of the box but should be very very smooth. I also opted for the more expensive SKF brand instead of the cheap chinese bearings that come stock. If I was replacing a bearing in any of my equipment I would use nothing less than a SKF, especially after all the work that goes into ripping equipment apart.

[Kelby Van Patten]

Perhaps you could unplug the saw, and with the saw OFF (obviously), use your cell phone to take a video of you giving the blade a spin by hand and then letting it spin down naturally. We may be able to tell from that whether there is more drag/load than one would expect.