Tenoner rebuild

[Joe Calhoon]

I was always quite impressed with the innovative drive Wadkin had at this time, they must have felt the pressure from the Italian and German companies who were pushing hard into the marketplace. I had that SAC tenoner in the shop a few years back, that was quite a bit heavier duty. T had two vertical shapers mounted in a common bracket and pivoted So you could swing one or the other into play, and there was a system of four vertical stop positions, effectively giving you eight machining positions. The motors moved in position hydraulically. It was a heavy duty machine and interesting. But i like the wadkin approach much better. I like the solid, fixed tables to mount the stock. and the fact that the head moves rather then the stock. I may play around with mine a bit, A will remove the large sheet metal covers, change the position of the electrical panel, i may remove the cutoff saw and shorten the length of the machine a couple of feet. Set it up like the original ones.

I have tried a few different tenoners but I have never produced windows and i don't have any experience with these machines, did you use the cut-off saw or precut your stock to finish size? Would you miss a cutoff saw if it was removed.

Looking at a large stack of cutters on a long skinny shaft with no top support is a tad unnerving at first, Its funny what you can get used to.
I wonder what the limits are on shaft diameter and length before they went to top supports. 500mm is a long shaft. Those stacked cutters are seriously heavy.

Mark, using the cutoff saw or not depends on the tenoner and how many different widths of scantlings you are working on. My Colombo tenoner had electronic shaft position of a 40X 230 shaft but the saw was mechanical digital readout and the fence had to be repositioned for any change of tenon or slot depth. The fence was not handy to change so I ended up replacing the saw blade with a aluminum disk and just using that as a bump stop with precut scantlings. Just like you would with a shaper. Another good argument for not using the saw is scantlings have to be precut to at least 1” over when using the saw and with the same amount of labor they could be cut to finish length saving one operation on the tenoner. However, with a machine where all the axis are controlled electronically- shaft height, fence stops and saw position it is better to cut on the tenoner. Some of these machines like the Soukup’s I’ve had will imput cultists from cad cam programs with all the settings automatic.
i will be interested to see how the fences on the Jet adjust. Possibly the tables adjust laterally to achieve adjustment. If it is a positive easy adjustment might be better to use the saw. I see they also have a shoulder stop and that can add another dimension.

As far as stacked shafts they are very sturdy. The general rule is 40 mm will be max around 250mm length, 50 mm max about 330mm length and 50mm at 500mm plus length will always have a top bearing. The big disks can be intimidating at first but usually the tooling on sleeve is well balanced and only turning at 3000 rpm on the stacked shafts with tooling diameters 320 to 350mm.

This is all becoming old technology in Europe with some of the lineal machines Weinig, SCM and Working Process make now. And the heavy Pod and Rail CNCs are another option.

[Joe Calhoon]

Here are some low tech solutions for shaper bump stops that could possibly be adopted to tenoners. If the saw blade adjustable with a readout probably best to rig that up though. My shop made stop on the T23 looks bad but actually very repeatable.

And building double hung windows using shapers
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4pMVj7g...d=4xsmwh812ax1

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[Mark Hennebury]

Thanks Joe, you have some interesting solutions for the stops. I am looking forward to getting one of these together and seeing how everything works. It will be interesting to check out the adjustments and see how they hold up. I wish that my machine had the forward, stop rods, I doubt that they are difficult to make though. With the spindle moving past the tenons, the forward stop, has to be moved out of the way after clamping. So i am interested to see try it. I have never made more than a couple of windows at a time before, and didn't have equipment to do so, so this is new territory for me, so I really appreciate your input. I mostly made furniture and precut all of the parts to finish size. I used a Balestrini mortiser and tenoner, which are perfect for chair parts. Although the tenons are simple, single square shouldered tenons, the parts are mostly curved and compound angles. So it was interesting work, but different than this machine and the more complex window joints. Its always fun to be heading into something new. Lots to learn.

[David Sochar]

Mark - I just bought, surprisingly, a Sac T-4 in an online auction for $1100! I did not really intend to buy it, but no one else jumped in, so it is mine. I gotta figure out how to get it here, and then where to put it.

This will be a good machine for our shop, freeing up the shaper, and taking some of the load off the Powermatic tenoner. However, there is no room and the thing is a beast. I may have to store it until there is room in a new shop space.

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi David, Congratulations on the score, that's a lot of machine for that price. Sac made some seriously sturdy machines. You should be very happy with this machine. The one i had was quite heavy.

SAC T8-2.jpg

Mark - I just bought, surprisingly, a Sac T-4 in an online auction for $1100! I did not really intend to buy it, but no one else jumped in, so it is mine. I gotta figure out how to get it here, and then where to put it.

This will be a good machine for our shop, freeing up the shaper, and taking some of the load off the Powermatic tenoner. However, there is no room and the thing is a beast. I may have to store it until there is room in a new shop space.

[Mark Hennebury]

David, i have a manual for a Sac T6 which may or may not be of help. Its for a a double spindle machine similar to the T8 , Its old and difficult to see the photos, but, i can send it to you if you don't have a manual with your machine. let me know if its of interest to you.

[Joe Calhoon]

These are good machines Dave. I had a SAC P 3 profiler for a while. A mate to the P series tenoners. You will need a manual, the computer- numerical controls on these are not intuitive. At least it wasn’t for me. This will run circles around the powermatic tenoner especially if you work with multiple profiles. Only downside is tooling for these type tenoners is expensive. Shaft will be 50 mm by 320 or 500 plus. These had the option for automatic saw and cross fence positioning.
here is a link to sales brochures

https://wtp.hoechsmann.com/en/lexikon/20797/t_4_tl