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Thread: New guy here , questions on Fiber laser

  1. #1

    New guy here , questions on Fiber laser

    Hello ,

    I am thinking of purchasing a 30w fiber laser one of the china branded ones . I have a few questions about the machines .

    First of all a kinda crazy one , Do you have to wear eye protection when using a fiber laser?


    What are the thoughts on engraving titanium tubes used for suppressors , does it weaken or compromise the strength of the tube ?


    I will be using this mainly for steel , stainless firearms frames and barrels . Also aluminum AR lowers and uppers and for form 1 suppressor builds which consists of al. tubing and stainless or as mentioned titanium tubing and end caps of the same.

    Thanks

    Kirk

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Yes, you need eye protection. Our eyes don't have a blink reflex to the wavelength of light that a fiber uses so you are 100% susceptible to catastrophic damage to your eyes. Skimp on anything you want to, but not here!

    You shouldn't be engraving deep enough to weaken the metal, but you'll have to do testing to see just how deep you need to go (if at all).

    Fiber lasers work well for the work you want to do, I kept mine quite busy doing just that.

    Just remember that for any firearm work, the ATF considers it gunsmithing, you'll need to have an FFL-01 at a minimum. Some here will say you don't, but for the minimal cost it's not worth taking a chance. Contact your local ATF field office and ask them what their position is on what you want to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Robinson View Post
    Hello ,

    I am thinking of purchasing a 30w fiber laser one of the china branded ones . I have a few questions about the machines .

    First of all a kinda crazy one , Do you have to wear eye protection when using a fiber laser?


    What are the thoughts on engraving titanium tubes used for suppressors , does it weaken or compromise the strength of the tube ?


    I will be using this mainly for steel , stainless firearms frames and barrels . Also aluminum AR lowers and uppers and for form 1 suppressor builds which consists of al. tubing and stainless or as mentioned titanium tubing and end caps of the same.

    Thanks

    Kirk

  3. #3
    FFL 01 for many years , probably going to upgrade to 07/SOT 2 at some point hence the laser engraver .


    Some of the titanium tubes are quite thin , .065 . ATF req. engraving to be .003 deep and characters of 1/16 tall.

    Kirk

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Robinson View Post
    FFL 01 for many years , probably going to upgrade to 07/SOT 2 at some point hence the laser engraver .


    Some of the titanium tubes are quite thin , .065 . ATF req. engraving to be .003 deep and characters of 1/16 tall.

    Kirk
    If you require a high-accuracy and/or ultra-high-accuracy lasering depth of 0.003 and are thus required to use laser displacement setups/sensors/equipment to verify those parameters, any and I quote you: “china branded ones “on eBay will not meet your required quality of resolution. The best setup from a Chinese-based fiber laser is in the range of 35μm for a 2”x”2 marking field or 50μm for a 4”x4” marking field. They will never give you the resolution of 0.003/3μm. I suggest looking into a solid-state laser, which is made for ultra-high-accuracy-resolution of 0.003. YVO4 lasers will give you a resolution of 1μm-2μm. If you need to be in the range of 0.003, you should look into using a YVO4 DPSS laser. Also, to be in a range of high-accuracy and ultra-high-accuracy, a laser needs to be set up with lab-specialized calibration equipment what usually is in a clean room, and any and I quote you again: “china branded ones “on eBay is set up manually in every day environment. There is no way that you will be in the range of the required 0.003 with manual set-ups. It is simply not in that class of equipment. The newest equipment--as in not older than 1 year--with the accuracy of and ability of lasering 0.003 is in the range of over 50 000.00; equipment that is older but in perfect condition for that resolution of 0.003/3μm can be obtained for 10 000.00.

  5. #5
    With all due respect Art, firearms aren't high precision medical instruments requiring micromachining to .0001" accuracy; they're little more than dangerous toys for grownups. Engraving guns to suit the ATF isn't rocket surgery. They just want engraving large enough to be legible and deep enough that it takes enough noticeable grinding to remove it; .062" minimum text height, .003" minimum depth. There's real easy trick to making sure you're legal: make your engraving at least .070" tall and .004" deep.

    There's an easy way to visually measure for depth-
    you just need something you KNOW is engraved .003" deep-
    here's mine-
    DEPTHofCUT2.jpg
    -a cheap loupe, and some Silly Putty. Squish a little 'Putty into each engraving and compare with the loupe. And seriously, with nothing more than the loupe you can verify by simply looking. That's a crappy pic above but even so you can see there's a noticeable difference between .003" and .005"...

    Should an ATF agent stop by to check your engraving depth, if they can adequately catch their fingernail in the engraving, they'll likely consider that deep enough to require grinding to remove, and be happy.

    An el-cheapo Chinese laser is all that's needed
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
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    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  6. #6
    Been there, done that, do that. 30W fiber will get it done. Eye Pro is a must as previously stated. My advice should you buy a unit would be to buy some anodized sheet stock for practice....learn your machine and software, focal plane etc. before you attempt on a firearm/suppresor tube. Best of luck to you.

    FWIW, if you go 07 and manufacture big numbers, you may consider a 50w to cut down on laser time, especially with respect to manufacturer marks and their required depth.
    Epilog Legend 36EXT ~35W
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  7. #7
    I'll get some glasses.

  8. #8
    So what are the thoughts on Ti tubing ?

    will it damage or compromise the strength?

    a call to tar heal state firearms - said they do it all the time never heard of any issues

  9. #9
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  10. #10
    Join Date
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    My company has done gun engraving for years and we have an FFL. The big reason for the Federal Firearms License is keeping guns overnight at your facility.
    They register engravers as "gunsmiths." Without the FFL, simply accepting the gun might be an issue. With an FFL, If the gun comes in and goes out same day, no record needs to be made. But if you keep it overnight, now a transfer is needed unless you log the FFL book's in/out records.

    The ATF has done one surprise inspection on us, and they also visit us at renewal time. They NEVER ask anything about engraving depth or anything technical. Their sole focus is always on our FFL logbook. That's not to say other agents elsewhere won't be interested in the work you're doing. The entry below is from the ATF website:

    Does a gunsmith need to enter every firearm received for adjustment or repair into an acquisition and disposition (A&D) record?

    If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired, or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the A&D record as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the A&D record.


    By the way, the FFL comes into play for the main receiver/body of the firearm and the serial number that is stamped there. If the customer wants you to engrave the stock or barrel, you can have them disassemble it at home and just bring the non-serialized part. No FFL needed.

    I'm fairly certain all this is accurate but must admit we don't deal with the ATF or pay much attention to our FFL other than inspection or renewal time. There might be some subtle aspects of this that I didn't deal with above and if someone wants to chime in to correct me I'd welcome that.


    Bill Collier
    Arch Engraving
    Fenton Missouri

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  11. #11
    'thank you gentlemen .

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