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Thread: Handplane vs Lunchbox

  1. #16
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    I love hand planes, just like others on this forum...
    I have a PM 20" planer with a Byrd helical head.
    Its tuned just right. The surface comes damn close to my best hand planes.
    maybe a quick swipe of 220 and its there. The good helical heads, in the right planer / jointer are a huge break through in ww.
    I had a Makita Lunchbox planer, kept new blades in it, finish was smooth as glass. I would not suggest running hardwoods at max width capacity and deep cuts. U have to work with the planer, listen to it, adjust accordingly.
    AS for cuts per inch on planner with stratight blades? I cant think of any good reason to slow down the cutter speed, other than if you are forced to feed the stock slower, or maybe have super knarly grain.
    Also, a planer can produce a uniform thickness along the entire board... incredibly difficult with a hand plane, specially when the board is much longer than the hand plane.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    The only difference I found between the two....planes do not snipe.

    Now, how well would a planer handle a board like this?
    Attachment 419892
    Hmmm?
    Steven, that would be a fairly simple task for a powered jointer. The board in question here is quartersawn. Anyone can plane quartersawn boards. Tearout is unlikely. And my Hammer A3-31 does not snipe.

    The real issue is whether one wants to do so with a hand plane or a power tool? That is another matter. Where there is a choice, it comes down to one's masculinity ... really. One is much more of a man if using hand planes, especially where the task ahead is onerous and consuming.

    Many of us are members of the hand tool forum because we enjoy using hand tool, and in this case hand planes. We all know that anything a power tool can do, a hand tool can do as well. Learning to master hand tools is source of achievement and pride. Each can complete tasks in a better way than the other. If you want the best of all worlds, learn to master both groups of tools.

    I would rather remove waste with power, and then refine with hands. Drive for the show and putt for the dough.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  3. #18
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    So..if I were to run the above board through a planer.....all the feed rollers will do is push the cupped board down flat......which will just pop back up once it is out of the planer....BTDT.

    Plane in that photo is a WR #62, BTW.

  4. #19
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    We all know that anything a power tool can do, a hand tool can do as well.
    This can not be turned around, power tools can not always do what a hand tool can do.

    Also, a hand tool can do a job better than a power tool.

    During my working days one of my woodworking co-workers was alway touting his power planer. One of the claims was it could remove 1/16" in a single pass. One of my counters to this in the shop where we worked was to hang a long translucent shaving over my work area. One day we were talking. The conversation turned to woodworking. When asked about his latest project, he replied he wasn't doing anything at the moment because he needed his planer blades sharpened. He then asked if this might be something my setup could handle.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    [edited]
    Now, how well would a planer handle a board like this?

    Hmmm?
    Speaking of "how well would a planer handle a board like this?"

    How about this one:

    Holding On.jpg

    That piece was approx. 4"X10-1/4"X7'. It was rough and uneven all around. It took awhile with hand planes but it looks good now.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 12-06-2019 at 1:19 AM. Reason: Corrected lumber's dimensions
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #21
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    From this ..
    Shaker Table Project, Side 2 ready.JPG
    (panel is 3/4" x 16" x 18")
    through this...
    Shaker Table Project, side 2 started.JPG
    (plane is a Stanley No. 6, type 7)
    To this..
    Shaker Table Project, side 1 done.JPG
    Then flip the panel over, and repeat...
    Shaker Table Project, side 2 done.JPG

    With a little clean up with a Stanley No. 3, type 11.

    YMMV

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    So..if I were to run the above board through a planer.....all the feed rollers will do is push the cupped board down flat......which will just pop back up once it is out of the planer....BTDT.

    Plane in that photo is a WR #62, BTW.
    Steven, you are getting your machines mixed up here. One uses a jointer to flatten one side before running the board through a planer (thicknesser). Rollers do not come into the equation with the jointer.

    Both hand planes and jointers have a place in the armoury. Not many have jointers as wide or wider than 12”. Hand planes go where powered jointers cannot. However, the speed at which a single board can be levelled is where a power jointer reigns.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  8. #23
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    As Stephen points out, a large panel would require a larger planer. Machine tools are more about finishing a piece, hand tools are about the journey. The pleasure from using hand tools, understanding the grain across a piece, that final swipe to reveal the surface people will look at for 100 years are a big part of the pleasure.
    Creating a reference surface then scribing all around and planing to the line produces enough accuracy (when you get the hang of it!). This is furniture not a car engine. The end user will learn to relish the small hand tool details and not wonder if the craftsman used a helical planer at the factory. The hand tool worker has more of a connection with the end user than you perhaps realise.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  9. #24
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    William I like your tag line....the last 1% is where science meets art. Sorry to get philosophical 😊

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    As Stephen points out, a large panel would require a larger planer. Machine tools are more about finishing a piece, hand tools are about the journey. .....
    William, interesting point of view. It is the complete opposite of my comments in the preceding post.

    I consider machines to be very valuable, however I do not view them as finishing tools. The jointers and planers of this world can do a fabulous job - if you wish to avoid tear out in interlocked boards on one of these machines, spritz the wood surface with water, allow it to sink in for a minute, than wipe it off. Now use the machine. The slightly moistened surface can produce magic.

    Having suggested this, I view machines as grunt tools (not finishing tools). Grunt work is rarely pleasurable, unless you do woodwork for purely romantic reasons. I enjoy the romance of hand tools, but I use them primarily as finishing tools. They afford a delicacy which machines cannot in many cases (in some cases machines are capable of great delicacy).

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 12-07-2019 at 5:47 AM. Reason: dyslexia

  11. #26
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    Yes Derek, grunt work is rarely a pleasure. We all draw a line in our minds where the grunt work done by machines ends and the craftsman and his tools take over. For me that is at ripping rough lumber with a table saw. The idea of ripping 28 feet of 3 inch black walnut by hand (as soon as it dries some more) would be daunting! The machine frees up my time for the pleasurable part.

    The raising the grain technique with water does produce a better final finish on some woods. It works with hand tools just as well. I let it dry completely before finishing. That technique is especially valuable if you are varnishing a piece as you are removing the fibres the varnish may also raise.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  12. #27
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    The raising the grain technique with water does produce a better final finish on some woods. It works with hand tools just as well.
    The technique does not aim to raise the grain. That is for sanding. With planing, it is to soften the wood and make it less brittle, thereby reducing or avoiding tearout.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #28
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    I will have to try it damp next time I have difficult grain, something I usually end up using my bevel up planes for. I generally donít like using them and planned on selling them. I was somewhat annoyed when they did a better job on some very difficult grain as I now have to keep them!
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  14. #29
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    Until one looks at the "cutters" in that lunchbox planer....and finds they are also "bevel down"......

    Only use I have found so far for a bevel up jack plane? I use it as a SCRUB plane.

  15. #30
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    Steven, you need to qualify how you set up the LA Jack that you find it so limiting. Paul Sellers wrote on one of his blogs that he disliked his LA Jack as it would tear out when he used it. I asked him what angle he honed the bevel on the blade (knowing that he could not tell since he only uses a rounded bevel at about 30 degrees). That would create a 42 degree cutting angle, and so wonder it would tear out. He replied to me that he honed it at 50 degrees (= 62 degree cutting angle). I didn't believe a word of this since, on the tame wood he uses, 62 degrees would be impossible to tear out. So, what angle do you set your LA Jack to cut?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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