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  1. #1
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    Handplane vs Lunchbox

    A hand plane makes a better surface than a planer because it makes one long straight cut vs many short curved cuts. But a planer impacts the wood. Does blade speed also make a difference?

    This may sound like a power tool question but I've brought it to the Neandercult because here we think a little differently.

    Thanks in advance for your insight

    Tom

  2. #2
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    By blade speed I assume you mean cuts per inch. Cuts per inch on a powered planer makes a difference; blade speed per se does not as long as the blades are sharp. More cuts per inch means lighter cuts, which means less crushing of the fibers and shallower scallops in the surface for you to correct with your hand plane later on. Blade speed coupled with an identical feed rate would give you higher cuts per inch, but if the feed rate is also higher (say, comparing different models with the same cuts per inch but different blade speeds) the only advantage would be time saved. Blade speeds would also make a difference in likelihood of burning the wood and speed of dulling the blades; we’re all well aware of the issues with a dull blade, so no need to go into detail there.

    Best regards,
    Michael

  3. #3
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    I use both. My lunchbox planer quickly reduces the lumber to my desired rough thickness. I follow up with smoother planes to establish the final thickness and a smooth as glass finish. Could I do it all with my hand planes? Sure, but I just don't have the time.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Luter View Post
    I use both. My lunchbox planer quickly reduces the lumber to my desired rough thickness. I follow up with smoother planes to establish the final thickness and a smooth as glass finish. Could I do it all with my hand planes? Sure, but I just don't have the time.
    +1. Same here.

    I also use planes for small or short parts.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  5. #5
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    Cuts per inch helps, but the surface is still going to show scallops when you put a finish on it. So for any show surface you're going to have to sand or plane it to finish.

    Not sure about the effect of blade speed, if it has any effect beyond increasing cuts per inch. Blade speed is usually limited by something else, like the max rpm the cutterhead can safely handle.

    A bigger factor would probably be cutterhead diameter. The larger diameter the less pronounced the scalloping, and it begins to approach something more like a handplane's cutting action. This can help with tearout, and the shallower scallops means less planing or sanding to get it ready for finish.

    The Japanese have a machine called a Super Surfacer. It is a type of planer, but uses a fixed blade instead of a rotary cutterhead. The work piece is fed through the machine and the cutter shears off a few thousandths. Even has a chipbreaker to limit tearout. This is the only power tool I can think of that would create the same surface as a handplane.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hazelwood View Post
    Cuts per inch helps, but the surface is still going to show scallops when you put a finish on it. So for any show surface you're going to have to sand or plane it to finish.
    It's been suggested that planers with a low speed feed option, and especially those that combine that with a helical cutter head, can achieve "finish ready" surface quality. I have no personal experience and frankly I'm skeptical.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  7. #7
    Unsure what you mean by 'make a difference'. In surface quality?

    I use my planer for thicknessing but usually a plane or sandpaper to finish, so the finish surface left by the planer (tearout notwithstanding) doesn't really bother me. In fact, I have come to kind of appreciate the scallops. They serve as a good reference guide for my hand planing. Also, because the tips of the wave break up the surface and you're really just knocking down the "tips of the wave" with the smoothing plane, there's less fear of tearing out.

    Anyway, I do both.

  8. #8
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    Guess I didn't make my question clear. Suppose I put a 100 rpm motor on my planer, it would make the same cuts per inch. The blades would not impact the wood, they would have to power thru, more like hand tools. How would the surface be different? I'm imagining the fibers being crushed in length.

  9. #9
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    I use my planer only on fast feed rate. Few times I used slow, it took more time and end of the day I still had to sand it a after project was done.

    Now a days, I use planer to dimension wood. After glue up and all, I either skim with a plane or sand for final finish. I find it faster than using the slow speed to get a little better initial results.

    As a added benefit, I am not bothered with small Nick's in blade anymore.

    Planer = DeWalt DW735

  10. #10
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    The only difference I found between the two....planes do not snipe.

    Now, how well would a planer handle a board like this?
    DVD Door, checking.JPG
    Hmmm?
    Last edited by steven c newman; 11-19-2019 at 10:53 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    The only difference I found between the two....planes do not snipe.

    Now, how well would a planer handle a board like this?
    DVD Door, checking.JPG
    Hmmm?
    Steven, that would be a fairly simple task for a powered jointer. The board in question here is quartersawn. Anyone can plane quartersawn boards. Tearout is unlikely. And my Hammer A3-31 does not snipe.

    The real issue is whether one wants to do so with a hand plane or a power tool? That is another matter. Where there is a choice, it comes down to one's masculinity ... really. One is much more of a man if using hand planes, especially where the task ahead is onerous and consuming.

    Many of us are members of the hand tool forum because we enjoy using hand tool, and in this case hand planes. We all know that anything a power tool can do, a hand tool can do as well. Learning to master hand tools is source of achievement and pride. Each can complete tasks in a better way than the other. If you want the best of all worlds, learn to master both groups of tools.

    I would rather remove waste with power, and then refine with hands. Drive for the show and putt for the dough.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  12. #12
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    So..if I were to run the above board through a planer.....all the feed rollers will do is push the cupped board down flat......which will just pop back up once it is out of the planer....BTDT.

    Plane in that photo is a WR #62, BTW.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    So..if I were to run the above board through a planer.....all the feed rollers will do is push the cupped board down flat......which will just pop back up once it is out of the planer....BTDT.

    Plane in that photo is a WR #62, BTW.
    Steven, you are getting your machines mixed up here. One uses a jointer to flatten one side before running the board through a planer (thicknesser). Rollers do not come into the equation with the jointer.

    Both hand planes and jointers have a place in the armoury. Not many have jointers as wide or wider than 12”. Hand planes go where powered jointers cannot. However, the speed at which a single board can be levelled is where a power jointer reigns.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #14
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    We all know that anything a power tool can do, a hand tool can do as well.
    This can not be turned around, power tools can not always do what a hand tool can do.

    Also, a hand tool can do a job better than a power tool.

    During my working days one of my woodworking co-workers was alway touting his power planer. One of the claims was it could remove 1/16" in a single pass. One of my counters to this in the shop where we worked was to hang a long translucent shaving over my work area. One day we were talking. The conversation turned to woodworking. When asked about his latest project, he replied he wasn't doing anything at the moment because he needed his planer blades sharpened. He then asked if this might be something my setup could handle.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post

    During my working days one of my woodworking co-workers was alway touting his power planer. One of the claims was it could remove 1/16" in a single pass. One of my counters to this in the shop where we worked was to hang a long translucent shaving over my work area. One day we were talking. The conversation turned to woodworking. When asked about his latest project, he replied he wasn't doing anything at the moment because he needed his planer blades sharpened. He then asked if this might be something my setup could handle.

    jtk

    For some reason this reminded me of a book I read when I was maybe 10, that described a meeting (fictitious I believe) between Richard the Lion Heart and Sultan Saladin during the Crusades. The story goes that they compared swords. King Richard took a thick iron bar and with a huge swing of his heavy broadsword cleaved the bar in two. Saladin, instead took a silk scarf and threw it in the air. As it fell, Saladin cut in neatly in half with a swift stroke of his razor sharp scimitar. The two, who had earlier scoffed at the apparently ineffective weaponry of their adversary, left with a new-found respect.

    Sorry, just thought the analogy was too similar.

    Cheers,

    Dom

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