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Thread: Help?

  1. #1

    Help?

    I know there are some really smart turners here and I'm hopeful that someone can help me with this issue.
    I have a Oneway 1640 lathe.
    I also have a Oneway live center that I use constantly.
    I would like to find a way to make accurate parts that fit onto the thread of the live center.
    Currently I am making lots of sphere and would like to make (read "not buy") a cup center for the live center.
    Because the Live center has a #3 Morse taper and my headstock has a #2 morse taper I can't just put it in the spindle.
    The cup center I have made was made from a plastic I'm not sure what but machines really easily but tends to make very very long pieces of plastic that wrap around everything. I cut it from a large piece. Turned it between centers put a shoulder on it, drilled it for a 3/4" tap. Reversed it in a chuck that held the new shoulder and made a cup. It just won't run true once I thread it onto the live center and as a result I can't do a very good job of removing the nubs I leave on the spheres I make.
    I was thinking that if I could find a nice 3/4" machined bolt I could cut the head off of it and then mount it in a collet chuck and thread my piece on (would I need a shoulder for it to tighten agains?) then turn the cup but I think I need a nice tight thread and most bolts I can find are a rather loose thread.

    Any suggestions?
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    8,451
    I don't know what you mean when you say "the Live center has a #3 Morse taper" Does the tailstock have a #3MT unlike most of the other wood lathes? Both of my Oneway live centers have #2 Morse tapers as do the headstocks on all of my wood lathes.

    I made some very accurate cup centers and other adapters to screw onto the Oneway live center from both wood and plastic. I first cut a blank larger than I needed and drilled and tapped for the 3/4" thread. Then I mounted the live center in the headstock and prevented it from spinning with a piece of iron wire through the locking hole. I screwed the block onto the thread and turned it to suit. Threading first and shaping second forces the wooden and plastic centers to be perfectly concentric. I've made cup centers, special jam centers, and some with pins to turn things with holes drilled in one end. Here is a picture of a couple where I turned pins to fit some project or another.

    live_center_threaded_IMG_7917.jpg

    BTW, I far prefer the Nova live center when I make special adapters. It's the most versatile live center available in my opinion. This is what's in the box:

    Nova_live_center.jpg

    The Nova center has a short #2MT socket which avoids the need to drill and tap. I simply turn a short MT on a piece of wood, mount that directly in the headstock, and turn whatever adapter i need. Here are a few wooden inserts along with some that come with the live center:

    live_center_MT2_IMG_7914.jpg

    JKJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Blair View Post
    I know there are some really smart turners here and I'm hopeful that someone can help me with this issue.
    I have a Oneway 1640 lathe.
    I also have a Oneway live center that I use constantly.
    I would like to find a way to make accurate parts that fit onto the thread of the live center.
    Currently I am making lots of sphere and would like to make (read "not buy") a cup center for the live center.
    Because the Live center has a #3 Morse taper and my headstock has a #2 morse taper I can't just put it in the spindle.
    The cup center I have made was made from a plastic I'm not sure what but machines really easily but tends to make very very long pieces of plastic that wrap around everything. I cut it from a large piece. Turned it between centers put a shoulder on it, drilled it for a 3/4" tap. Reversed it in a chuck that held the new shoulder and made a cup. It just won't run true once I thread it onto the live center and as a result I can't do a very good job of removing the nubs I leave on the spheres I make.
    I was thinking that if I could find a nice 3/4" machined bolt I could cut the head off of it and then mount it in a collet chuck and thread my piece on (would I need a shoulder for it to tighten agains?) then turn the cup but I think I need a nice tight thread and most bolts I can find are a rather loose thread.

    Any suggestions?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    950
    I have made a number of wooden chucks for my Oneway live center and no matter how precise I tried to be, I always had to use the method that John describes above to true it up. That being to take the live center to the headstock and disable the bearing and turn it true. Since your Oneway 1630 has a no.3 MT tail stock, a couple of options might help. Purchasing a no.3 inside to no.2 outside Morse taper adapter would allow you to drive the live center from your headstock although that adapter is a little long. The other would be to change to a no.2 MT live center and then use a no. 3 to no.2 MT adapter sleeve in your tail stock. Unfortunately that all means purchasing more hardware.

    I got reasonable results (but not perfectly true) with just tapping the 3/4 x 10 thread on the chuck with my tail stock and then turning a well running internal face and shoulder on the chuck prior to removing it from the headstock. As long as the thread wasn't too tight the mating faces of the aux cup chuck and the live center flange would typically get me very close.

    Difficult to see in the pic below but the wooden chuck has a well fitting internal pilot and shoulder to the live center thread flange.

    cup chuck for Oneway live center.jpg
    Last edited by Dick Mahany; 11-14-2019 at 8:51 PM.
    Dick Mahany.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Posts
    511
    Dick has the right idea. Hold your piece for the cup chuck between centers and turn a tenon. Reverse and hold your piece in the chuck. Tap a 3/4 x 10 thread and turn your concave in the face. Remove from the chuck and thread onto your live center. It should run true enough to hold a sphere.
    Joe

  5. #5
    Thanks John, as usual you are a treasure trove of information and assistance.
    The oneway live center is too big for the headstock of my lathe. I always get confused with Mores taper sizes and I may have not explained it correctly. Unfortunately this means I can't duplicate your process of mounting the live center in the headstock. This is my issue. I appreciate the information re the Nova Center but my funds are limited and at least at this time it is not something I can do.
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I don't know what you mean when you say "the Live center has a #3 Morse taper" Does the tailstock have a #3MT unlike most of the other wood lathes? Both of my Oneway live centers have #2 Morse tapers as do the headstocks on all of my wood lathes.

    I made some very accurate cup centers and other adapters to screw onto the Oneway live center from both wood and plastic. I first cut a blank larger than I needed and drilled and tapped for the 3/4" thread. Then I mounted the live center in the headstock and prevented it from spinning with a piece of iron wire through the locking hole. I screwed the block onto the thread and turned it to suit. Threading first and shaping second forces t
    he wooden and plastic centers to be perfectly concentric. I've made cup centers, special jam centers, and some with pins to turn things with holes drilled in one end. Here is a picture of a couple where I turned pins to fit some project or another.

    live_center_threaded_IMG_7917.jpg

    BTW, I far prefer the Nova live center when I make special adapters. It's the most versatile live center available in my opinion. This is what's in the box:

    Nova_live_center.jpg

    The Nova center has a short #2MT socket which avoids the need to drill and tap. I simply turn a short MT on a piece of wood, mount that directly in the headstock, and turn whatever adapter i need. Here are a few wooden inserts along with some that come with the live center:

    live_center_MT2_IMG_7914.jpg

    JKJ
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  6. #6
    Thanks Dick. I was sort of afraid that there was no easy solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Mahany View Post
    I have made a number of wooden chucks for my Oneway live center and no matter how precise I tried to be, I always had to use the method that John describes above to true it up. That being to take the live center to the headstock and disable the bearing and turn it true. Since your Oneway 1630 has a no.3 MT tail stock, a couple of options might help. Purchasing a no.3 inside to no.2 outside Morse taper adapter would allow you to drive the live center from your headstock although that adapter is a little long. The other would be to change to a no.2 MT live center and then use a no. 3 to no.2 MT adapter sleeve in your tail stock. Unfortunately that all means purchasing more hardware.

    I got reasonable results (but not perfectly true) with just tapping the 3/4 x 10 thread on the chuck with my tail stock and then turning a well running internal face and shoulder on the chuck prior to removing it from the headstock. As long as the thread wasn't too tight the mating faces of the aux cup chuck and the live center flange would typically get me very close.

    Difficult to see in the pic below but the wooden chuck has a well fitting internal pilot and shoulder to the live center thread flange.

    cup chuck for Oneway live center.jpg
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  7. #7
    Thanks Joe. I have tried this and it does run true enough to hold a sphere but not really very true.
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    950
    One other idea......if you have a collet set for your headstock, you could chuck a piece of 3/4" - 10 threaded rod which would run true. Then you could screw the cup chuck onto that and true the surface to your satisfaction. Then transferring to the live center should yield a true running chuck. I got into pen turning a few years back and an ER32 collet chuck set has turned out to be a very useful investment for many things that I previously hadn't thought about.
    Dick Mahany.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    8,451
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Blair View Post
    Thanks John, as usual you are a treasure trove of information and assistance.
    The oneway live center is too big for the headstock of my lathe. I always get confused with Mores taper sizes and I may have not explained it correctly. Unfortunately this means I can't duplicate your process of mounting the live center in the headstock. This is my issue. I appreciate the information re the Nova Center but my funds are limited and at least at this time it is not something I can do.
    Then the MT adapters mentioned might be useful. They are inexpensive, purchased through Amazon. I found them made from both mild steel and hardened. I have them for #3 to #2 and #2 to #1. I use them mostly for taper shank drills which I prefer on the lathe instead of Jacob's chucks:

    taper_1_IMG_20160919_094408.jpg

    Or borrow a Oneway #2MT (or a common Jet/Powermatic clone) with the same thread and make your adapter. I have at least 4 in my shop; almost every woodturner I know has one. I'd be glad to lend you one for a few months if you pay the postage but it might be easier to find one locally.

    If you do this a lot, an competent machinist could make one for you to fit your headstock. Or a lot cheaper, buy a threaded arbor with a #2MT and a 3/4x10 thread on one end: https://www.rubberchucky.com/store/p..._Arbors.html#/
    He also sells a variety of pre-threaded rubber pieces that will fit the Oneway live center, such as these:
    https://www.rubberchucky.com/store/p...r_Large.html#/
    https://www.rubberchucky.com/store/p...huckies.html#/
    https://www.rubberchucky.com/store/p...cky_Set.html#/
    I bought most of what he carried a few years ago and the pieces can be turned to fit the application if necessary

    It's curious why they would use a #3MT for the tailstock and #2 for the headstock. My metal-cutting lathe has a #2MT for the tailstock and #3MT in the headstock. I assumed it was to give a larger hole through the spindle to feed long stock, which I've taken advantage of.

    JKJ

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ottawa, ON Canada
    Posts
    1,275
    I would try Dick's idea. If you don't have a collet chuck, but have jaws for your scroll chuck that will grip the threaded rod, you should be able to follow Dick's plan.
    Grant
    Ottawa ON

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    lufkin tx
    Posts
    2,040
    Crazy but you can mount your chuck on the headstock and chuck up your #3 taper in it-with care- with the blank screwed onto it for turning. After drilling and threading the blank of course. Another option to mount your blank on the 3/4 thread is to Glue it on with epoxy or better with JB weld---after greasing the threads lightly to act as a release agent. If you do not have a 3/4" tap--makes great tight threads.

  12. #12
    Thanks everyone. And Yes my headstock taper is in fact smaller than the tailstock taper. I am searching for a quality adaptor but I feat the extension it will provide will not achieve a good result. I think I have now tried all your suggestions other than purchasing another part and the closest I cam to having it run true is from chucking the live center in the three jaw chuck of my small metal lathe. It did not go as well as I had hoped but I am closer. Thanks again to all of you who took the time to provide me with ideas and suggestions!!
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    950
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Blair View Post
    Thanks everyone. And Yes my headstock taper is in fact smaller than the tailstock taper. I am searching for a quality adaptor but I feat the extension it will provide will not achieve a good result. I think I have now tried all your suggestions other than purchasing another part and the closest I cam to having it run true is from chucking the live center in the three jaw chuck of my small metal lathe. It did not go as well as I had hoped but I am closer. Thanks again to all of you who took the time to provide me with ideas and suggestions!!
    You mentioned a small metal lathe.....my little 7x12 metal mini lathe has a no.3 Morse taper in the headstock. If yours does also, it might run truer than chucking the live center in the three jaw.
    Dick Mahany.

  14. #14
    Unfortunately my ML7 has a #2 MT both ends the head and tail stocks but thanks for the thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Mahany View Post
    You mentioned a small metal lathe.....my little 7x12 metal mini lathe has a no.3 Morse taper in the headstock. If yours does also, it might run truer than chucking the live center in the three jaw.
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  15. #15
    I know you said you didn't want to purchase anything but. . .I went through some of the similar trials and ended up buying one of these:

    Capture.JPG

    from Penn State: https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LTCA18.html

    I screwed a block of wood onto a small faceplate and turned it to shape on the headstock, then thread it onto this fixture in the tailstock. Runs very true.

    You unusual (in my experience) Morse size in the tailstock may present a challenge, as the link I provided is #2 MT, not sure if you can find it in the appropriate size.

    Best,

    Dave

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