Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Beginner at table building

  1. #1

    Beginner at table building

    Although I have made about five dining tables I still consider myself a beginner. My first three tables I used pocket holes to join the table top. The last two I strictly used glue and clamps and made a strong table top. I have been asked to make 13 tables 54 matching benches for a brewery. Each table will be 30 inches wide and 12 feet long. They will have wide metal legs and I will have three legs per table. My question is how would you join the boards for the table top? I Purchased a Dowling jig and tried it on some scrap pieces but even using the jig the holes were not lining up and I was unable to do a dry fit. The dowels would get stuck inside and then I was unable to push the boards together closer or pull them back apart. Because this is a commercial order I want to ensure that these tables are going to stand up to the abuse that they will get Because this is a commercial order I want to ensure that these tables are going to stand up to the abuse that they will get. While I do have a 6 inch jointer and a 15 inch planer I will be using the tablesaw to create flat edges for jointing because the boards will be too long to run through my jointer. I appreciate any advice you can give.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    10,301
    A twelve foot table for a brewery probably means softwood 1.5” thick, but thicker would be good if you can get it. A biscuit joiner helps align the boards for glue-up, but it is the big butt glued surface which really holds it together.

    Softwood planks generally are sold green, so you will see shrinkage across the grain as they dry out. Make sure your base/leg structure will handle that

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    McKean, PA
    Posts
    15,574
    Blog Entries
    1
    Other than aiding in alignment, dowels, biscuits and tenons add little if any strength to edge joined boards. If you glue up two pieces at a time, it is pretty easy to get the face surfaces aligned during glue up, then add one piece at a time to that glue up allows you enough working time to get the surfaces aligned as you apply the clamps.

    Regarding your dowel problem, when you apply glue to a dowel or in the dowel hole you have to insure that the air and any excess glue has a place to go. If the air and or glue can't escape then you basically are fighting hydraulic pressure trying to compress a liquid which cannot be done. You also may not be able to pull the boards apart due to the thin layer of glue sealing the dowel in the hole and not letting air back in. A simple solution is to run a hand plane down one side of the dowel rod, creating a small flat, before you cut it to length and to not apply too much glue in the hole or on the dowel. Also make sure your dowel holes are slightly deeper (1/4" or so) than half the length of the dowels. Commercial fluted dowels rarely have this problem.
    Lee Schierer
    USNA '71
    Go Navy!

    My advice, comments and suggestions are free, but it costs money to run the site. If you found something of value here please give a little something back by becoming a contributor! Please Contribute

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Schierer View Post
    Other than aiding in alignment, dowels, biscuits and tenons add little if any strength to edge joined boards.
    Sorry but I totally disagree with the above statement. Any time glue surface area is being increased, as is the case with a dowel, biscuit or tenon, strength is also being increased.

    However, the larger point that Lee and others make is that if your edges have been prepped well, a long grain glued edge joint does not need the additional strength so you can omit dowels, biscuits or tenons despite the added strength they offer.

    Where I would focus if I were you:
    Make a set of shop stands like the ones pictured below. Sometimes these are called Krenov style shop stands.
    For twelve foot glue ups I would say you need at least four, but maybe it would be better to have six.
    These shop stands are invaluable, they nest together to take very little floor space, and will last you a lifetime if you make them properly out of a good hardwood.

    To keep your boards flat and aligned, do a google search for cambered or curved cauls. Make a set or two of these and use them with F clamps at each saw horse to keep everything flat, then proceed to drawing your clamp pressure across the table. Please think about the clamp intervals needed to give yourself consistent pressure along the 12 ft length. A good way to estimate this is to take each clamp point, and draw 45 degree angles to each side. These resulting triangles will show you where the clamp pressure will project. Make sure each 45 degree triangle touches or overlaps the next one, and you will avoid any clamping dead spots in your glue up which is important in a long glue up like this.

    Hope this helps,
    Edwin

    By the way, if you move this post into the General forum, I think you will get more feedback.

    011208056-main.jpg
    Last edited by Edwin Santos; 11-13-2019 at 3:37 PM.

  5. #5
    On my dowel issue I didn’t use glue as I was dry fitting first but my boards were stuck together and I couldn’t get them apart nor could I get them all the way together. I used the jig I purchased but the holes still seemed a bit small even though I used the 3/8” bit and 3/8” dowels. I’ll mess around with it some more.

    So the consensus is that glued up joints is plenty for the strength of these tables? While not preferred would it be beneficial at all to use pocket holes or no? I’ve never taken any classes, just watched videos but I’m definitely interested in becoming a better woodworker each day. :-)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,638
    One of the things I like about using Domino for this is that the mortises can be slightly wider, which makes it a heck of a lot easier to both dry fit and glue up large panels like this while still enjoying the benefit of indexing from the top of the boards across the panel so that top surface is "pretty darn close" to being level across all the boards. Dowels are harder to do this with because the holes are circular and don't provide any lateral wiggle room and it only takes a tiny fraction of an inch to make things difficult to put together as was your experience. Even biscuits would be easier than dowels in this respect.

    I personally would not use pocket screws for this kind of assembly as it's too easy to distort things while tightening the screws down and they don't add much to the strength like a mortise and tenon does. (Dominos, dowels, splines and biscuits, relatively and generally speaking are all a form of mortise and tenon)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    281
    Get the Domino XL. I always add tools when appropriate for projects, especially if it makes my life easier. This project, IMO, warrants getting a tool that will help you be more efficient and it will improve your product.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,638
    Yea, that's what I use now for this...Domino 700XL.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #9
    Even the Domino 500 would be adequate, you will be able to glue up pretty much flush joints which will make buying it worth the money plus u can use it for a bizilion other things. Forget doweling and biscuits... I even sold my beloved Lamello top 21 (no nothing else will do)... and contrary to popular belief adding dowels, biscuits, dominos will not necessarily strengthen an edge joint, it may even weaken one depending...

    Also, even though this top is thick don’t bother to glue the dowels, biscuits, domino’s - won’t add much if any strength and could telegraph to the surface from the glue swell (don’t ask me how I know). Also for G-d’s sake don’t use green softwood, buy it kiln dried and check the moisture or you will be in a world of hell...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Lazz View Post
    Get the Domino XL. I always add tools when appropriate for projects, especially if it makes my life easier. This project, IMO, warrants getting a tool that will help you be more efficient and it will improve your product.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •