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Thread: Buying from auctions and 3 phase power

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
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    6,529
    My State sander takes 16 minutes to spin down. I have a resistor for it, just need to get around to installing it.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Day View Post
    My State sander takes 16 minutes to spin down. I have a resistor for it, just need to get around to installing it.
    My 37" dual disc Oliver takes 90 minutes to stop if I turn off the braking on the vfd.

  3. #18
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    Dec 2005
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    West Lafayette, IN
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    Well aren’t you bigger and better, huh Darcy?! ;-)

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Western PA
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    1,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    My 37" dual disc Oliver takes 90 minutes to stop if I turn off the braking on the vfd.
    That is unbelievable. Ballpark,what do the disks weigh?

    True, it was an incomplete machine, but still, I wouldnt mind a contemporary cross cut fence extrusion from Felder or similar. The missing rip fence replaced by a bies was a big bummer.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Cambridge Vermont
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    2,282
    Congrats on the new to you sander. The auctions can get addictive. I have several I watch and recently picked up a Powermatic 66 table saw for a fraction of what I could of bought a new Grizzly for. The next week at a different location a Delta Unisaw went for about the same price. My advice is too look at the pictures or even better yet see it in person if you can. My 66 was listed as 3 phase but was only single phase. I started looking into getting a VFD for it and what I found was the cheap Chinese ones didn't have that great of a track record. I was going to step up to the next level. More than twice the cost but if the cheap one dies suddenly the savings are gone.

    When it comes to auctions pay attention to fees. Things like buyer's fees (usually 10% to 15%), sales tax, and loading charges. A loading charge usually means they will load it for you. With my 66 there was a $25 loading fee. It was already on a pallet and loading it took the guy maybe a minute so he didn't charge me. If you don't see a loading fee assume that you will have to load it yourself or hire a rigger. Be careful when it comes to loading it yourself. Some auctions will require proof of insurance so if you get hurt while loading it you can't sue them. It was required for my 66 purchase but they never asked for proof. Plenty of deals out there as long as you don't get caught up in a bidding war.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    That is unbelievable. Ballpark,what do the disks weigh?

    True, it was an incomplete machine, but still, I wouldnt mind a contemporary cross cut fence extrusion from Felder or similar. The missing rip fence replaced by a bies was a big bummer.
    I was told about 125 pounds each. Originally it was set up with a chain fall to remove discs to glue new paper on them.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    152
    Alright, well the first part of this adventure is over. The sander is in my shop!

    The place I bought this from is an 'online only' auction. No previews or inspections allowed and they require pickup before the weekend as they host live used car auctions every weekend.

    Anyways, onto the pickup. I drove over to the address (again, less than 10 miles from my house) listed on the sheet and.... it was an apartment complex. After scratching my head for a few minutes I picked up google and realized their invoice sheet swapped numbers on the address. Turns out the place is 1/2 a mile closer to me. Once I got there some other buyers were mulling about and mentioning how the 2 guys in charge were in a bad mood. I waited my turn, showed them my paid invoice and they directed me to the sander. At this point they asked what kind of help I wanted (load with forklift, lifting help or use of a pallet jack). The sander wasn't on a pallet so I asked if I could do some minor disassembly to make my unload easier. 'Its all yours, take all the time you want'.

    After 15 minutes of careful disassembly I got it down to the core machine. I'm guessing the motor, wheel, leg and base combined weigh 400+ lbs. The tables, trunions, electronics and arms add atleast another 100+ lbs. Using the dolly I brought I wheeled it over to my truck and then the attendants and another buyer mulled around with my while I contemplated loading. In the end another buyer helped me lift and tilt the sander into my truck bed. All in I was there for 30 minutes. The people there could not have been nicer or more helpful. It was the opposite of what I expected or my first impression.

    To get the sander out of my truck bed at home I used an engine hoist to support the base and slowly lowered it down, using the tailgate as a pivot on the motor. Plywood helped everything slide easily.

    Now I've got the thing in my shop, disassembled, waiting for the next steps. I tried turning the plate and it spins super smooth and frankly the entire unit looks like it has seen gentle use. I'd rate it as 9/10 condition.

    I'm going to put it on a mobile base and then park it until after Thanksgiving, at which point I get figure out how to wire it. Gives me a few weeks to figure out the best VFD.

    2019-11-13.jpg

    I should add, given how close this place is AND how helpful the staff was, I will be buying from them in the future. Checking out their future auctions, they get woodworking stuff through often.
    Last edited by Ben Grefe; 11-13-2019 at 2:05 PM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Peoria, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grefe View Post
    Lots of good info.

    I read the rules carefully and there’s nothing about hiring a rigging company. I’ll watch out for that in the future.

    This is a 3hp 20inch model. It’s literally identical to the Powermatic 20 inch disc sander (clearly was made in the same factory). After some research, it’s a 220v/440v motor, you just have to wire it differently.

    Forgive my ignorance on the brake controller wiring - the extra terminals on the VFD would go to a massive resistor, nothing to do with the motor wiring, right?

    I saw that the Huan Yang VFD’s (which seem low priced) want you to contact them if you’ll be using a brake resistor and they special make them. Any advice on other low price VFD’s to go with?
    If it's 220/440, it's not 3 phase.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    If it's 220/440, it's not 3 phase.
    Uh, what brings you to that conclusion? I can't remember the last time I saw a 440v single phase motor on anything.

  10. #25
    I have about 10 3 phase machines that are 220/440

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Okotoks AB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    If it's 220/440, it's not 3 phase.
    North American utility voltages are 120/240V single phase, or 120/208V 3 phase. I'm not aware of anywhere that offers higher voltages than 240V in single phase. Going up the voltage ladder, there is 277/480V 3 phase. In much of Canada the 480V 3 phase has been 'phased' out in favor of 347/600V.

    Motor voltage ratings for North American motors will be 115V, 208V, 230V, 460V or 575V. I can't remember just why motors have the oddball voltage ratings, but that's the way it is.

    Two voltages you won't find are 110V and 220V. They just don't exist. Not from the utility, not on a motor nameplate.

    Again, I'm talking North American here.

  12. #27
    I have plenty of motors that say 110v and 220v.

    That was supply voltage back 70 years or so, as demand got bigger, supply voltage was bumped up, 115v 230/460
    Now we are at 120 240/480

  13. #28
    Awesome news! I’m glad it worked out so smooth.

    I also wanted to add that if you buy a VFD with the coast feature, you won’t need to worry about a braking resistor if you just let it coast...apparently anywhere from 15 to 90 minutes!

  14. #29
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    Apr 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    I have plenty of motors that say 110v and 220v.

    That was supply voltage back 70 years or so, as demand got bigger, supply voltage was bumped up, 115v 230/460
    Now we are at 120 240/480
    Darcy, I just knew someone would pop up with an exception I'm speaking to stuff of recent vintage. There are lots of foreign motors that have all kinds of odd (to us) voltage ratings.

    I believe that standard utility voltage went straight from 110/220V to 120/240V, as you say, about 70 years ago. I guess the 115V or 230V ratings came about because around then there would be both 120/240V and 110/220V installations

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
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    5,666
    I have to let my Kindt Collins sander coast to stop. A vfd won't have a big enough resistor to slow the disk very quickly. You can add one for cheap but I've never needed to slow the disk with anything other than a scrap of wood. Dave

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