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Thread: Time To Eat Crow

  1. #16
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    I think you'll like the wagon vise. I have the $$$ benchrafted one, but never regretted it. I doubt I go a single shop session without using it for something. I'd hate to always be screwing around with battens, etc. Comes in handy for attaching fixtures and doing handheld power tool work as well.

  2. #17
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hazelwood View Post
    I think you'll like the wagon vise. I have the $$$ benchrafted one, but never regretted it. I doubt I go a single shop session without using it for something. I'd hate to always be screwing around with battens, etc. Comes in handy for attaching fixtures and doing handheld power tool work as well.
    Robert,

    We will see, I had the BC wagon on one of my Roubo benches and never used it. I know different strokes for different folks and all that rot. I work better most of the time with lose boards and stops and battens but this old dog can still hunt and still learn, maybe .

    ken

  3. #18
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    Mar 2006
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    Austin Texas
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    Ken I have a thin (les than a 1/4" thick) end stop plugged into some holes in one end of one of my Ruobo slabs that works well for the quick-slick-and flip work on final smoothing and/or thickness tweaking on something. My BC wagon vise on the other slab is handier for initial jack/try work that does not require so much turning over, flipping around and close sighting work. It is good for taking rough stock down when you are working the piece over fairly vigorously with the plane and don't want the piece to move around. It works well for narrow/long edge jointing work that is too narrow for use in the leg vise.
    David

  4. #19
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Eisenhauer View Post
    Ken I have a thin (les than a 1/4" thick) end stop plugged into some holes in one end of one of my Ruobo slabs that works well for the quick-slick-and flip work on final smoothing and/or thickness tweaking on something. My BC wagon vise on the other slab is handier for initial jack/try work that does not require so much turning over, flipping around and close sighting work. It is good for taking rough stock down when you are working the piece over fairly vigorously with the plane and don't want the piece to move around. It works well for narrow/long edge jointing work that is too narrow for use in the leg vise.
    David,

    There usually are not many times I feel a need to stick a work piece down but when I do, I use a LV "Wonder Dog", it works well. We will see if this old dog can learn new tricks . Whatever, I will enjoy building a new bench. The big decisions are going to be woods used and size of the slab. I'm leaning towards a 7' to 8' slab and maybe a White Oak slab but probably will end up using Beech. It is hard to beat Poplar for the base but I'm open to one of the Oaks.

    ken

    ken

  5. #20
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    Aug 2013
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    I'd like to not have a vise, but making chairs that is a hard thing to contemplate with seriousness.

    I'm actually very happy with the LN tail vise, works well and doesn't droop. I've put it through the paces for something like 8 years now.

    Whenever I have a spare moment and material (hah) I plan to replace my bench with something. I was thinking roubo for a time, but I like the idea of the Moravian more still. More efficient in terms of material use, given that the legs are splayed and it is 'knock down' basically it amounts to a planing beam up on saw horses.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    The shoulder vise won’t care if the legs are slanted.
    The reasons for a shoulder vise escape me. Of course everyone is working different projects and a shoulder vise may be the cat's pajamas for some projects.

    My skepticism is from occasionally needing to edge join longer pieces:

    Bench Bucket Cement.jpg

    A shoulder vise does not allow for this kind of work. In my case, the front vise is often removed for other work. A shoulder vise would have been in the way for some of my projects. Same with a wagon vise being difficult to remove when one wants a clear end on the tail to clamp their work in a different manner.

    Wide Board With Clamps.jpg

    Sometimes the simple solutions are the most versatile.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    South West Ontario
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    The shoulder vise is perfect for edge joints, a longer bench helps of course. Shoulder vise uses: Dovetails, vertical board clamping, edge jointing, tenons, ripping, scroll saw work, drilling holes, holding jigs, some saw sharpening, holding deep objects, planing the top of a small box, small even pressure glue upís, holding tapering objects, canít imagine why anyone would want one
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    The reasons for a shoulder vise escape me. Of course everyone is working different projects and a shoulder vise may be the cat's pajamas for some projects.

    My skepticism is from occasionally needing to edge join longer pieces:

    Bench Bucket Cement.jpg

    A shoulder vise does not allow for this kind of work.
    Actually, edge jointing is easier with a shoulder vise

    Shorter boards use the board jack, and longer ones get supported on the far end by whatever is available. And speaking of height, you can easily adjust the board height on a shoulder vise to what is most comfortable. Plus there is no limit to the width or length of the board.

    Though dovetailing is where the shoulder vise excels, I actually use mine the most for edge jointing long boards, since I have a crummy 6"jointer. That and clamping scrapers for sharpening.

    IMG_7147.jpgIMG_7148.jpg

  9. #24
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    William, Andrew, thanks for sharing your reasons for liking the shoulder vise. To me it seems like something that would always catch my hip in a crowded shop.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    William, Andrew, thanks for sharing your reasons for liking the shoulder vise. To me it seems like something that would always catch my hip in a crowded shop.

    jtk

    Jim,

    Same here, I'm happy for you guys having found something that works for you. It is not an easy thing with work benches but a shoulder vise would never work in my shop.

    ken

  11. #26
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    I'd like to not have a vise, but making chairs that is a hard thing to contemplate with seriousness.

    I'm actually very happy with the LN tail vise, works well and doesn't droop. I've put it through the paces for something like 8 years now.

    Whenever I have a spare moment and material (hah) I plan to replace my bench with something. I was thinking roubo for a time, but I like the idea of the Moravian more still. More efficient in terms of material use, given that the legs are splayed and it is 'knock down' basically it amounts to a planing beam up on saw horses.
    Brian,

    Go for it, there is no down side except maybe installing the LN tail vise. I think it would work but I'd have to do some measurements to confirm the vise, leg, floor, overhang relationship would work.

    ken

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    South West Ontario
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    A round dog is almost never as wide as an oblong or square dog. The face cut into it has limited depth and weakens the top of the dog. Round dog holes are usually drilled perpendicular, so they canít toe in. This is not such a big deal as the holding face is so limited it canít get high enough to apply pressure to the top of your work anyway.

    Until you have used real, oblong, toed in dogs that can be raised substantially to hold your work down, you can continue to believe ď it will function about the same as squareĒ.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  13. #28
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    A round dog is almost never as wide as an oblong or square dog. The face cut into it has limited depth and weakens the top of the dog. Round dog holes are usually drilled perpendicular, so they can’t toe in. This is not such a big deal as the holding face is so limited it can’t get high enough to apply pressure to the top of your work anyway.

    Until you have used real, oblong, toed in dogs that can be raised substantially to hold your work down, you can continue to believe “ it will function about the same as square”.
    William,

    I call bull, I have built and used several benches with square dogs. I have used both and the only advantage to square dogs is the "hoot" factor. The job of end vises is not brute force holding of work, instead the least pressure that works is better and I've never found a case where a round dog wouldn't work to apply necessary pressure to hold the work. Of course most folks have different ways of working and what works for thee may not work for me but for me the simplest way is usually the best way.

    ken

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post
    Brian,

    Go for it, there is no down side except maybe installing the LN tail vise. I think it would work but I'd have to do some measurements to confirm the vise, leg, floor, overhang relationship would work.

    ken
    Thanks, Ken!
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    South West Ontario
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    905
    Ken I agree simple is often the most productive. I also have used several benches. The toeing in ability of angled dogs (say 3 degrees) enables you to hold narrow work without the tendency for it to lift off the bench. Yes you can use less pressure to stop the lifting and sometimes the holding is not enough. I do notice the improvement with toed in dogs. They are a lot more work to make and must be done when you make the bench.
    After you have done simple some like to push it to the next level. There are all sorts of work arounds for all sorts of problems that let you get it done, often they are awkward and time consuming but they work.
    When you build something that lets you give up awkward and time consuming the best way I can explain it is you feel like you are cheating!
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

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