Total Newbie trying to figure my base requirements.

[ChrisA Edwards]

So while at Woodcraft yesterday, I signed up for their 'Intro to CNC' class, but that's not until Dec 5th, so I'm itching for more info.

I have space for a 48x96 machine on the upper floor of my external garage, but realistically, probably don't have the budget or the need for such a beast.

For the actual CNC machine, my budget is around $2500, but that also needs to cover all the software for design as well as cutting. Right now I'm leaning towards an X-Carve from Inventables, but can easily be persuaded if there is something better. I also have the option of selling a couple of motorcycles that would increase my budget significantly ($7k-$10K).

Currently, my main computer is a 2015 15" MacBook Pro. I also have a retired 2010 MacBook Pro laptop which, if possible, would like to use to drive the cutting procedure. I have a bunch of old Windows PC's which I might be able to recommission, but they are at least 8 years old. I do have a 21" Dell monitor, not sure if i could use this with my MacBook, but I wouldn't be too averse to buying a new monitor.

This is going to be completely hobbyist at this time. This is just a next step in a progression of retirement hobbies.

Thanks you for you thoughts and suggestions.

[bobby milam]

Before you buy you need to learn more about them. There are some free software that you can use but ou will find that many of us use Vectric software which vcarve pro is around $700 alone and bump that to $2000 if you wanted Aspire to do 3D. Besides the physical restrictions on the bed dimensions for something like the X-carve look at the Z axis. It is only like 2 1/2". I'm not sure if they included 3/4" MDF in that 2 1/2" or not but you can see that once you start putting material on it, you will run out of room fast depending on the bit length. It also uses a small palm router. They get the job done but they have limitations that you have to be aware of. I'd rather have a full size router or better yet a spindle on a machine.

Computers....don't worry about that until you select a machine to see what it needs. Some don't require to be connected to a computer to operate and some do. If they do, they normally don't require much of a computer to run them but it is preferred to use a desktop over a laptop usually.

Rocklers and Woodcraft are good places to look at some machines but IMO they are much more expensive there than what you can find better machines elsewhere. I would also consider a good used machine. Many people buy these entry level machines and then find that they should have bought a bigger or better machine and will sell their old machines to buy a new one.

If it were me, I'd consider what the motorcycles mean to me and how much are they used. If you were really willing to one or more up and increase your budget you would find it gets interesting in your choices. Remember, the cost of the machine is just the start. You will also need a good table in many cases, bits, collets, dust boot, dust collector, etc. I made the mistake of buying a small machine from Rockler and it worked but had a lot of limitations to it. I sold it and then bought a heavy steel 4X8 machine for just a couple of thousand more than the tiny plastic one and now love it. It is a nice hobby especially if you are retired and have more time to use it.

Check out your local library. I recently found that mine has a tiny CNC router, a 3D printer and other things that I could go in and use for free with just a library card.

[Jim Becker]

I agree that you probably need to spend some more time learning. Here are a couple of thoughts, however, based on your OP...

For second floor, you're pretty much going to need to go with a modular or "build your own from extrusions" product if you go larger than a desktop machine. Why? Getting it in there. A typical 4x8 machine with a welded base is going to weigh in the neighborhood of 2000-3000 lbs, depending on the manufacturer and they don't come apart. (other than maybe removing the gantry if you are really brave) Getting a machine like that into a second floor space would require a crane, knowledgable riggers and a very large opening in the wall. And a good floor structure. Your budget is going to be a huge constraint on acquiring something that can handle full sheets like you mention, too, even with a "build your own" scenario.

You can do design work on your MacOS machines, either natively with applications like Fusion360, or via virtualized Windows for applications like those from Vectric. You are going to be hard pressed to be able to use a MacOS machine for CNC control, however. I do my design work on my Macs, but "most" CNC control systems used in the small to mid-sized machine world utilize and require Windows. The specifications for that computer are generally modest at least. For design work, a large monitor with high resolution is a huge benefit for sure. I use a 27" here in my office with 2550x1440 resolution, but 4K is also worthy. I use a 25" monitor with the same resolution in the shop on my CNC control computer because I often need to make adjustments to a design or toolpaths and it's just plain easier to do that with that setup. The original 19" 1080 monitor really was inadequate other than for the control software.

I agree with Bobby that many of the machines sold in the woodworking retailers are, um...well...not well loved. There are many other more worthy choices. In fact, if you need to get your feet wet with something modest "now", consider the Shapeoko XXL. It's in your budget, has about a 30"x30" capacity and can do real work, despite being a lower cost kit. When (not if... ) you decide you want to move larger, you will then have the experience to ascertain what you really need to do the kind of work you want to do. I like the concept of "buy your second CNC first", but that's just not always practical for many folks, especially for the hobbyist.

[John Lifer]

Search locally for used machine. There are some that pop up fairly regularly. I got a shapeoko last month, I had minor issue with a couple of parts and they shipped me replacements the next business day. No questions asked. Customer service was great and I'm not the only one who thinks it. Good forum run by company, and other forums also. Software is ok. Design software that is free is pretty rudimentary. You will need something better to design in my opinion. The company is working on a pro version of their software, will be about same as the entry vcarve software, (not pro). I'm not sold on it, will probably spring for vcarve.
I'm happy with the machine, it works as advertised and was not hard to put together.

[bobby milam]

John mentioned a users forum. It is a good idea to pick a machine brand that has a good active forum. There will be times that you have brand specific questions and can get quick help on their forums better than you can on a more generic forum such as this.

[Matt Schrum]

John mentioned a users forum. It is a good idea to pick a machine brand that has a good active forum. There will be times that you have brand specific questions and can get quick help on their forums better than you can on a more generic forum such as this.

+1 on this. I hardly knew a stepper motor from an endmill when I bought my ShapeOko (okay, maybe I wasn't that bad), and their forum was a huge help for setting it up, tuning the machine, learning how to use it, and seeing what common upgrades folks were doing as I got more familiar with the machine. That forum saved me hours of hair pulling.

[Kevin Jenness]

Linking to another forum is disallowed here, but google "camheads Buying a CNC? Do Your Homework!!" for a guide to what you should be thinking about.

Shopbot and Camaster both have active forums. Besides being invaluable to users of those specific makes there is a great deal of info on topics applicable to all machines.

[Carl Beckett]

Some good food for thought here. As a recommendation, I lean towards the used Shapeoko approach to get started (or something like it). lt should come close to fitting your budget, will allow you to do some things, and you can learn.

"Buy your second CNC first" : Doesnt work for me. Because, I have no idea what that second CNC is... and it is not until I do some things do I have a better grasp on what I want to do (I tend to learn by doing). So I take just the opposite approach: buy something to get started with as a complete system, and learn. But buy something that resells easily. Would take this approach before selling any motorcycles... (although I sold mine to make room for woodworking stuff, so who am I to talk)

I have a desktop CNC recently. It is not at all obvious to me that I would want a 4'x8' machine even if I had the space for it. (I may... but am not convinced at this time - the projects I have planned for it all fit on the smaller footprint no problem).

I did look at build your own approach, and also the import from china approach. Viable. But right at this time I did not want building the machine to be the hobby, wanted to get some projects done.

Also as a beginner a good support forum and tech support was something I put priority on and agree with that advice, it was helpful to me even getting the first piece out of the machine. Software choices mean $ impact. Whether you want to do soft metals, or a 4th axis even. $$ invested vary dramatically depending on some of these answers.

Good luck and have fun!

[Ben Grefe]

Carl, I think by ‘build the CNC’ approach what is really meant is a modular CNC, similar to an Avid CNC setup (formerly known as Router Parts CNC).

I’d also checkout full machine dimensions and weights - these things are BIG. I initially was going down a 48x96 machine before I realized that a machine that size 1) weighs 2000+ lbs (for a welded unit), 2) takes up 6ft x 10ft of floor space and 3) realistically needs 8ft x 15ft of floor space so you can walk around it, put material on the table and secure your hold downs.

I’ve been in the market for a CNC for almost a year now (decided to buy something else this summer, so I’m probably looking at next year now). There’s a HUGE quality difference and price range in the units. On top of that, it’s somewhat the Wild West when you start looking at Chinese made ‘no name’ units. Sure they might use the same parts, but you better have experience in import/export process and be your own tech support.

The smaller units don’t have the rigidity that many woodworkers really want (nor the work surface size). The medium units might, but then they start getting heavy.... and pricey. I think for a 48x96 unit you’re probably looking at $10,000 as your starting point. Maybe 6-7k for a 48x48. Looking for a more ‘professional’ quality unit with support in either size really starts at 15k and quickly goes into the 30 or 40k range. Obviously this isn’t aimed at hobbyist, but it’s just to point out there’s a massive price range.

[Tom Dixon]

If you want to go the Chinese CNC machine route Grizzly just added a 600mmX900mm Chinese made machine to their line up. It's price at 5K is about double what you could buy one through AliExpress from Blue Elephant or AccTek but you would be assured support. I've been shopping Chinese machines casually for a while. I'll get more serious next year. One suggestion for you is to Google "Chinese CNC reviews". There is a lot of info out there from bad to great. Take your time. For myself I'm considering a 900mmX1200MM as a hobby machine for my shop. This one has caught my eye: AccTek 9012 It's specs are close to what I want except for the spindle size.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I've joined the Camheads forum and now am starting to read many of the threads, obviously this leans towards the Camaster machines, which would require the sacrifice of a Ducati.

I'm not aware of other brands, probably in the $6K-$12K range.

I can see this will probably be one of the longest research and info gathering process I'm about to undertake.

Keep the info and suggestions coming, thanks.

[Jim Becker]

There are plenty of machines in the $6-12K US range, but they are not going to be "four-by-eights" in many cases. That includes the heavier brands like Camaster, ShopSabre and ShopBot as well as companies like Axiom plus the "build your own" machines. And thanks for joining Camheads. Even if you choose to go another direction, there's a lot of good people and a lot to learn.

[bobby milam]

If you want to go the Chinese CNC machine route Grizzly just added a 600mmX900mm Chinese made machine to their line up. It's price at 5K is about double what you could buy one through AliExpress from Blue Elephant or AccTek but you would be assured support. I've been shopping Chinese machines casually for a while. I'll get more serious next year. One suggestion for you is to Google "Chinese CNC reviews". There is a lot of info out there from bad to great. Take your time. For myself I'm considering a 900mmX1200MM as a hobby machine for my shop. This one has caught my eye: AccTek 9012 It's specs are close to what I want except for the spindle size.

Tom, the spindle size is not an issue. You can buy a Chinese spindle and VFD fairly cheaply if that one wasn't enough for you. If you are looking at Acctek, I'd suggest going thru Acctek USA. They already have contacts in China with the company and distribute in the US for them so they can order a machine how you'd like it. I am pretty sure they could order that machine and have the spindle and VFD changed for a different size spindle at the factory. I've had mine for a little over a year and am glad that I made the purchase.

[David Buchhauser]

One of my machines is the CNC Router Parts (now Avid CNC) Pro4848 with 3hp spindle. This is a 48 x 48 machine (actual travel is 49.5" x 49.5"). I bought this earlier in the year. The beauty of this machine is that it is easily expandable to 48 x 96 (or longer). My cost was $9848.00 plus shipping. It would be another $1100 to get the 48 x 96 version. So I guess this is pushing the $12k that Jim mentioned. Here's Frank Howarth showing how easy it is to add an additional 4 feet to the CNC Router Parts table.
David

https://youtu.be/ygND7TFziF8

Frank adds 4 ft. to cncrp table.jpg

[Tom Dixon]

Tom, the spindle size is not an issue. You can buy a Chinese spindle and VFD fairly cheaply if that one wasn't enough for you. If you are looking at Acctek, I'd suggest going thru Acctek USA. They already have contacts in China with the company and distribute in the US for them so they can order a machine how you'd like it. I am pretty sure they could order that machine and have the spindle and VFD changed for a different size spindle at the factory. I've had mine for a little over a year and am glad that I made the purchase.

Thanks for the tip on contacting AccTek USA Bobby. I was planning to get a quote with a 3KW water cooled spindle and a bigger VFD but it is going to have to wait until at least Q2 2020. I just purchase a oscillating belt sander which I pick up tomorrow so I'm pretty tapped out for 2019. I'm glad to hear you are pleased with your AccTek CNC. What are the specs on the machine you purchased?