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Thread: Vesper Sliding Bevel & Box

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Very nice box, Dom. I assume that you marked it out with a Versper-made Cohen knife?

    Perhaps you should talk Chris into a range of your custom boxes for his gauges. They are worthy of each other.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek .... with 4" and 7" sliding bevels, both of which came in cardboard boxes
    Actually yes I did! It's a great knife for small dovetails. Although it wasn't as critical as usual as I made the centre pin fatter than i like because originally i had intended to cut the box in half through that pin (then thought it may not be quite thick enough for that!).

    That would be cool, but I suspect that there may not be many people willing to pay more on top of the price of a tool like this for a wooden box.

    Chris' tools are really top notch and I think the price, while certainly not cheap, is very fair. I am also happy to support boutique makers of quality products. It wasn't that long ago, albeit before my time, that you couldn't buy new high quality hand tools, and I don't want to see that time come again!

    Cheers, Dom

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post

    Well I’m gonna throw some love out there for Chris and the absolute perfection of his tools both in function and beauty. Add to it he might be one of the nicest and most patient people I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with.....

    .....First if hand made you have to make very very nice or fine things. As a result you also must largely not solely cater to those whom can afford such luxury. Be it a Bugatti or a piece of furniture it best be nicer than the next guy as it probably cost just as much to make nice vrs “nice” if it’s truly hand made.


    I do get that there is a huge sector of the population that just can not justify a $400 bevel. So what I’m saying is not without understand and or compassion for that.

    I personally do my best where I can when I can to support other makers and or working people. For what they are and I. Sure the time involved in making them I consider chris’s Tools a value if nothing else.
    Well said, Patrick.

    I know Chris very well. I am proud to count him among my friends. He is an extremely talented toolmaker, and there are few in the woodworking world with his ability. He strives for perfection, and rightly is passionate about the pieces he makes. I know the long hours he puts in, and he has a waiting list of buyers because he also takes the time to attend wood shows to demonstrate his tools ... they really need to be seen in person to appreciate their extraordinary quality, and a quality of workmanship that also translates into improved use. One might not need a Martin sliding table saw to create furniture ... but, oh man, we can appreciate one when it is used.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  3. #18
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    I have also found that generally people want nice stuff but when they come to understand the price involved in nice and hand made vrs off the shelf mass produced they often are not willing to pay for it.
    My funny story on this was with my first potting bench made to be sold at a Farmers Market. A woman came up and looked at it and commented on the dovetail joinery. She said her husband was a woodworker and would it be okay for him to come look at it so she could show him what she wanted. My reply was, "no problem, take pictures if you like." Her husband came and looked at it and asked how much? After telling him the price and saying that $25 could be knocked off if they didn't need me to deliver it, he said, "let me go get some money and my truck."

    That would be cool, but I suspect that there may not be many people willing to pay more on top of the price of a tool like this for a wooden box.
    My thought on that is anyone purchasing a tool like that to actually use should be able to make a nice box.

    Part of my learning woodworking has been to make my own boxes and fixtures for woodworking.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #19
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    My thought on that is anyone purchasing a tool like that to actually use should be able to make a nice box.

    Part of my learning woodworking has been to make my own boxes and fixtures for woodworking.

    jtk
    Jim, while I share this attitude with you, I accept that there are many reason to purchase tools. Some just like to buy, own and display their tools. They may never use them. Others pride themselves in having as few as possible, using them creatively and with great skill. It is easy to get cynical of those that do things differently ... oh cr@p ... it is Sunday morning and I am sermonising. Sorry (in truth, avoiding reports that have to be written before I can get to the workshop).

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Jim, while I share this attitude with you, I accept that there are many reason to purchase tools. Some just like to buy, own and display their tools. They may never use them. Others pride themselves in having as few as possible, using them creatively and with great skill. It is easy to get cynical of those that do things differently ... oh cr@p ... it is Sunday morning and I am sermonising. Sorry (in truth, avoiding reports that have to be written before I can get to the workshop).

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Just to add to these comments and my own; if someone were willing to pay extra for a tool nicely presented in a box, surely these types of top-of-the-line, 'luxury' tools would be where that would be possible. Especially if it was bought as a gift.

    I guess it's like workbenches, or shop appliances, or wood mallets, etc - I aways feel that there wouldn't be a market for them, as woodworkers could, and i feel would want to, make their own. But clearly there are many who have the means and just want nice stuff - their focus is on making, or learning to make, other things.

    Cheers, Dom

  6. #21
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    Jim, while I share this attitude with you, I accept that there are many reason to purchase tools.
    I guess it's like workbenches, or shop appliances, or wood mallets, etc - I aways feel that there wouldn't be a market for them, as woodworkers could, and i feel would want to, make their own. But clearly there are many who have the means and just want nice stuff - their focus is on making, or learning to make, other things.
    Yes, there is any number of motivations for what people do.

    My first mallet is still in my shop and was store bought. At the time there wasn't anyone teaching me how to create joinery. My feelings have changed a little. Now it seems a woodworker just starting out would do better to build some of their shop appliances and such for the educational factor. But, it is also understandable that some people do not have enough extra time to build such things, but they do have the money to purchase the items that are commonly shop made.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #22
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    Feeling a bit sad that my query about the operation of the Vesper bevel as compared to the Stanley #18 stirred up such a fuss. My intent was to focus on the clamping method differing from Disston and others who locate a clamp screw lever or wing nut at the pivot point. The Vesper products are real jewels and I wish I could rationalize the cost. Even though I strive to support individual craftsman as often as possible, utility sometimes wins out.

    Regarding cost.....

    In my working life I have occasion to purchase various custom tooling. The tool shops I use couldn't reproduce a Velper bevel for less than three or four times his selling price without tooling up a production run of a couple hundred pieces. I applaud Vesper's ability to keep the cost as low as it is.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  8. #23
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    Feeling a bit sad that my query about the operation of the Vesper bevel as compared to the Stanley #18 stirred up such a fuss.
    Another way to look at this Rob is it "stirred up such a fuss" because it is a topic of interest to others. Some merely hold their feelings with more passion on the subject.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #24
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    I don't actually own Vesper's bevel yet, but I do own 3 Stanley #18's. These bevels do actually work but I don't think Vesper is wrong in saying that they don't work. I don't care how tight you get the Stanley, if you bump the far end of the blade off your bench while using this then your setting will move. I have 3 different examples of this bevel and they all are exactly the same in this respect. I have been able to play around with Vesper's bevel at the last LN Open House in Warren Maine and I can guarantee his bevel WILL NOT move. It is an engineering and machining marvel. Not to mention it is not bad to look at either. I am certainly going to own one some day but just can't justify the expense yet. I do NOT think these are over priced for the insane tolerances Chris is working at. I also own a Blue Spruce bevel and even this bevel is not at the level of craftsmanship that the Vesper is. The Blue Spruce locks down tight but once loose is not all that loose. To me the Vesper bevel is PERFECT and well worth the expense.

  10. #25
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    I’ve had a vesper sliding bevel for around 7-8 years now, use it constantly. It works beautifully, my only regret are that the little 4” version has been out of stock for a while.

    Chris’ work is very much worth the asking price, in my experience. There are no details left unconsidered.

    Chris puts up a lot of info on his work, I’ve seen him post up squares accurate to under a micron. That doesn’t happen by accident.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 11-16-2019 at 11:02 AM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  11. #26
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    Chris puts up a lot of info on his work, I’ve seen him post up squares accurate to under a micron. That doesn’t happen by accident.
    Nicely said, Brian.

    Those who understand what it takes to reach this level of work are less likely to argue the price. There are lesser products available for less cost if money is a limit. And so it is in life and all things.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  12. #27
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    I’ve never used a Stanley 18, so if Warren says they work well I’m certain they work well. Chris design works beautifully for me.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  13. #28
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    I have a Stanley #18 and use it. I do not have any complaints about it compared with other sliding bevels. It does an excellent job of holding an angle. I have no doubt it would be reliable for minor bumps. Anything I drop from my bench would be checked and possibly reset, including a Vesper. The #18 is not in the same class as the Vesper in regard to quality and looks. The Vesper just feels so much more solid as it is not only heavier (which is a good thing when balancing on an edge), but the arms are thick, stiff and non-corroding stainless steel. It screams precision tool, while the #18 is unostentatious and workmanlike. Both work.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #29
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    I tend to class Chris' stuff in with my tools from Starrett, Mitutoyo, Taft-Piece and Japan Automatic Machine. I use the sliding bevel to setup my Bridgeport spindle at times when precision less than a sine plate is needed. Often enough I think Chris' does a better job on chamfering edges.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

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