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Thread: How to price kitchen cabinet build

  1. #1
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    How to price kitchen cabinet build

    Have a hint I may have a chance to build a set kitchen cabinets for a remodel. How do you price them, I want to have pricIng ideas before so I don’t get stuck. So much for the materials then a factor for labor based on the price of material. Or is there some sort of guide line (Rule of thumb). no sure what sort they will want, it’s in a arts and craft era house but that doesn’t mean they will go with that style of cabinets. I’ve built cabinets but not for hire. Any help would be appreciated. Charles

  2. #2
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    Back in my corporate days the marketing guys beat it into me head that price has nothing to do with cost; it only has to do with how much someone is willing to pay, and that's true no matter what someone is buying. The hard part of course is figuring how much that is for whatever it is you are selling and some people don't or won't do it. They price things based on time and materials and profit factor. Some do OK that way, but really have no idea if they left a huge amount of money on the table.

    My suggestion is to look at where these poeple live, how much houses cost there, what kinds of cars they drive, how their house is furnished inside, etc. You could make the identical set of cabinets for a nice middle class couple living in a middle class tract house, driving a Jeep and a minivan, with two kids in college and a for another couple where one is a Dr. and the other belongs to the tennis club, living in one of the really nice neighborhoods of your city, driving high end European cars with no kids or kids on their own. Would you quote both the same price for the same set of cabinets?

    John

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    You need to find somebody close to your area who knows the current pricing for cabinetry. Not crazy pricing..

  4. #4
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    Prepare to get 300 different answers. I think taking your material costs and multiplying by some factor(usually see 3x) is inaccurate at best. Next method that will be suggested is estimate how many hours you think it will take and multiply by your preferred hourly wage and add your materials. I feel like that is inconsequential. What you really need to do, is price to the market. I would suggest shopping your competition, and bid your job accordingly. If their product is higher quality than yours, then deduct from their price to suit your product. If you are doing something above what they are offering, then add to your price. Once you have the market value, deduct your materials and see what the estimated profit will be. If its acceptable to your efforts, then you move forward. If its not, then charge more and you maybe dont get the job.

  5. #5
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    I agree with the other responses that this is a difficult question to get a straight answer...for every 10 cabinetmakers, there will be 11 different pricing methodology ideas. That said, one method that's not uncommon is per lineal foot, but that's really hard to figure out for a one-off type situation based on your own materials and labor, honestly. So I'll also agree with the suggestion to try to get an idea about what general pricing is in your area for the "level of quality" you intend to bid/provide for the opportunity. You'll want to be in the ball-park for sure and you cannot go by just pricing knockdown or box-store products that are factory produced.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
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    Before you go any further, you MUST lock them down to what they want. There's a big difference in material cost and labor involved between a white melamine euro box with a slab door and no drawers and fully beaded inset cabinet made from select mahogany with a raised panel door. If they're thinking paint, that's another headache.

    then a factor for labor based on the price of material.
    Already been stated , but let me reiterate: the cost of material has little bearing on the labor needed to produce a finished product.


    This will seem like a flippant suggestion but, whatever price you figure out in the end - DOUBLE IT. You might just stand a chance of not losing your shirt.

  7. #7
    I’m a cabinet maker by trade.

    In my area “metropolitan Boston” if using the LF model it is generally speaking $800-$1500 LF.

    Some shop will build for that painted and or finished at the mid to top end.then others will hit the top end of the only primed. That would not include install.

    Now with that said I have watched time and time again complicated and intricate builds require much more than $1500 LF to build in a business environment with rent, various insurance, payroll, machine maintenance, utilities, house stock blah blah blah.

    Your suggestion of arts and crafts conjure up images of ornate qs white ok stain grade work. Now that does no mean it has to be built like furniture but in some ways it can’t just be built like a edge banded full overlay slab style kitchen either.

    In a shop/business environment I’d need more than $1500 a LF to produce a true furniture quality kitchen. Not so much for shaker style paint grade five piece doors.

    In my own personal shop or on the side with no overhead I could easily work within the $800-$1500 LF baseline. Take into account the $8-1500 baseline is a starting point. Fancy this or fancy that and changes here and changes there are additional to the baseline pricing.

    What I do personally is break it down to boxes and or pieces. Determine how many man hours is in each piece. Then I do a takeoff and come up with a materials list down to the last drawer slide and screw. From there I get. Price for finishing. I take All that info and say ok add 20% if it seems responsible as things generally always take longer. Sometimes they don’t and those are the few times a year you win. I always try to account for not winning as I like my work till I’m doing it for free or minimum wage.

    Hope that helps. I remember well the first full kitchen I made on my own. Went well but man I didn’t know what I didn’t know.

  8. #8
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    No faster way to loose your "hiney" that to use someone else's rule of thumb. No two people work at the same rate nor have the same equipment. If you've never built cabinets, I have no idea how you can price them. Best way to make money? Act as a contractor and have another shop build them and you mark it up 10%. Guaranteed money maker then! I remember working for a dollar an hour way too many times starting out. A kitchen is an easy way to loose money. They take up so much space, you are constantly shifting material and assembled cabinets around. If you have the room to have 20 cabinets sit around while you make doors and drawers, that's not an issue. I never did in my little shop until I went pro. Then there is the dreaded deadline. Folks get real cranky when their kitchen is a bucket of water and a hot plate. They hate delays!

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    I’m a cabinet maker by trade.

    In my area “metropolitan Boston” if using the LF model it is generally speaking $800-$1500 LF.

    Some shop will build for that painted and or finished at the mid to top end.then others will hit the top end of the only primed. That would not include install.

    Now with that said I have watched time and time again complicated and intricate builds require much more than $1500 LF to build in a business environment with rent, various insurance, payroll, machine maintenance, utilities, house stock blah blah blah.

    Your suggestion of arts and crafts conjure up images of ornate qs white ok stain grade work. Now that does no mean it has to be built like furniture but in some ways it can’t just be built like a edge banded full overlay slab style kitchen either.

    In a shop/business environment I’d need more than $1500 a LF to produce a true furniture quality kitchen. Not so much for shaker style paint grade five piece doors.

    In my own personal shop or on the side with no overhead I could easily work within the $800-$1500 LF baseline. Take into account the $8-1500 baseline is a starting point. Fancy this or fancy that and changes here and changes there are additional to the baseline pricing.

    What I do personally is break it down to boxes and or pieces. Determine how many man hours is in each piece. Then I do a takeoff and come up with a materials list down to the last drawer slide and screw. From there I get. Price for finishing. I take All that info and say ok add 20% if it seems responsible as things generally always take longer. Sometimes they don’t and those are the few times a year you win. I always try to account for not winning as I like my work till I’m doing it for free or minimum wage.

    Hope that helps. I remember well the first full kitchen I made on my own. Went well but man I didn’t know what I didn’t know.
    Thanks for detailing how you do it- good useful info for a lot of us.

  10. #10
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    $800-1500 is way out there...

    I'm in the Midwest ..way off...

    I think I'll stay out of this one...
    Last edited by jack duren; 11-02-2019 at 8:56 AM.

  11. #11
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    Find out exactly what they want. If they don't know, and just wave their hands around in the air, forget that job.

    Find out what the exact same thing would cost in your area. Offer to build them for the same price. You're not likely to be as efficient as the experienced pros, but it will be a good first test to see if doing such jobs is worth your time.

    If you're working to do someone a favor, none of this matters anyway. If you want to have something left over when you get finished, and walk away with the check, you can't be doing people favors.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Grauer View Post
    Have a hint I may have a chance to build a set kitchen cabinets for a remodel. How do you price them, I want to have pricIng ideas before so I don’t get stuck. So much for the materials then a factor for labor based on the price of material. Or is there some sort of guide line (Rule of thumb). no sure what sort they will want, it’s in a arts and craft era house but that doesn’t mean they will go with that style of cabinets. I’ve built cabinets but not for hire. Any help would be appreciated. Charles
    Hard to say without knowing the kind of cabinets you intend to bid on. Then prices vary a lot around the country. If you are looking to just make general cabinets you might check the prices at your local box store. That should put you somewhere in the ballpark. Chances are your customer has been looking at box store cabinets already.

  13. #13
    As in way off high or way off low.

    That’s just what is is here.

    I don’t make rules.

    Interesting to hear what is way off.

    I know one architect we build for uses this Amish guy in the middle of the country. I have been told some of his prices for very specific pieces. I am always left thinking I could barely purchase the materials for that much.

    Boston is a very very expensive place to live and do business.

    Quote Originally Posted by jack duren View Post
    $800-1500 is way out there...

    I'm in the Midwest ..way off...

    I think I'll stay out of this one...

  14. #14
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    Roughly 1000/lf here for mid grade (1" doors, beaded, inset, 52-54" tall x 15" deep uppers) with end panels and painted.

    This assumes 1/4 of it is island w/o uppers.

    Individual boxes with individual face frames.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Back in my corporate days the marketing guys beat it into me head that price has nothing to do with cost; it only has to do with how much someone is willing to pay, and that's true no matter what someone is buying. The hard part of course is figuring how much that is for whatever it is you are selling and some people don't or won't do it. They price things based on time and materials and profit factor. Some do OK that way, but really have no idea if they left a huge amount of money on the table.


    John
    Not necessarily disagreeing with John, but as a former cost accountant, I think it important for you to at least have a handle on your own costs.
    Even if this is not the primary basis for your pricing to your customer, it is still important to know whether it is worth your time and what your costs of materials, overhead and time might be. And don't forget the cost of consumables and supplies. Materials is much more than just wood and hardware. Budgeting a time line and tracking your hours is quite important also. I feel the cost of raw materials is generally the cost and not subject to much variation. On the other hand, the contractor's operating habits and conditions can be night and day between one and another.

    I once knew a commercial general contractor who was always quite competitive in the bidding arena and seemed to be consistently successful.
    One time he told me he could not build a building to spec any cheaper than anyone else and he did not build using barefoot high risk subcontractors either. All his subs were well established companies.

    So how did he do it? He told me there were two secrets to his success; one was compressing the job timeline using a very disciplined culture of schedule creation, tracking, monitoring down to the day. This reduced his general conditions all other things being equal and sometimes made him the choice if not low, because the more sophisticated customer was considering the reduced carrying cost of getting their building into operation sooner.
    Second secret - paying all subs on time and never hanging up anyone's retainage. The subs would always sharpen their pencil a little more for him knowing they'd get paid and paid promptly.
    I don't know if any of this is helpful, but it makes a good story.

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