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Thread: Cermark / Thermark Outdoor durability

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Fresno CA
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    Cermark / Thermark Outdoor durability

    Hello,
    I was wondering if anyone had any insights on whether Cermark can be placed outdoors specifically when on stainless steel. Will fade over time?

    Thanks in advance for any input

  2. #2
    Won't fade. If properly fused to SS the only thing I know of that will remove it is abrasion. If in the path of water sprinklers, calcium deposits can form...

    One of my customers used to have SS plates made with their logo pressed in color, I would add the variable info using Cermark. These plates go on trucks that are exposed to all kinds of weather all over the world. The found after about 5 years their logo was pretty much gone, but the Cermark was still completely readable, even if somewhat worn down. That was about 12 years ago, and I've been making these plates from scratch using only Cermark ever since, and not one complaint.... yet
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Fresno CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    Won't fade. If properly fused to SS the only thing I know of that will remove it is abrasion. If in the path of water sprinklers, calcium deposits can form...

    One of my customers used to have SS plates made with their logo pressed in color, I would add the variable info using Cermark. These plates go on trucks that are exposed to all kinds of weather all over the world. The found after about 5 years their logo was pretty much gone, but the Cermark was still completely readable, even if somewhat worn down. That was about 12 years ago, and I've been making these plates from scratch using only Cermark ever since, and not one complaint.... yet
    Thanks for the input Kev. That's good to know. I've used Thermark for years without issue but am looking to try Cermark.

  4. #4
    There is no difference between Thermark and Cermark, I'm not sure of the exact history but something to the effect of one guy invented the stuff, sold the company, then started the other company, and in the end Ferro ended up with both companies... ish

    there may have been slight differences in mixture but I really doubt it. I DO know that some years ago Cermark changed the ingredients, and what used to be thick as mud ended up like pancake syrup with dirt in it. Supposedly a main ingredient became unavailable. The new stuff is better in some ways, but IMO not as reliable as the old stuff, and for sure doesn't stretch as far.

    Anyway, same stuff- even both names are on the same labels these days:
    ct.jpg

    ok, edit-- Just to be clear, there's many versions of Cermark, and I'm noticing that the 'Thermark' label is applied to the LMM-14 stuff, and as of now NOT applied to the LMM-6000 stuff. Me, I've always used the 6000- I have a small bottle of the 14 but haven't actually tested it yet. I know a few people- Tim comes to mind- that prefer the 14. Guess I should give it a shot...
    Last edited by Kev Williams; 10-29-2019 at 7:34 PM.
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    SE South Dakota
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    Back before "CerMark", I used Cerdec on an 11 X 14 SS sign for a local powder coating co. Cut 'em a good deal since I had never used it before and was wondering about
    longevity too. That was back around 1997? The sign STILL looks great to this day--shoulda charged full price as that was some spendy stuff.
    Cerdec/Cermark same company I assume.
    Epilog TT 35W, 2 LMI SE225CV's
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  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Rock Hill, SC
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    IMO the LMM14 is better than the 6000....IF, you don't need to handle the part much. The 14 will wipe off if you touch it but the nozzle doesn't clog, you get all of the contents out of the can and it lays down so much easier. I have noticed that if I want a really black mark then it takes two light coats, instead of one thick one. I got turned on to the 14 b/c it was spec'ed for an aerospace job I had last year. The coating on the parts stopped the 6000 from sticking but the 14 worked just fine.
    Universal 60w VLS6.60 w/ rotary
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  7. #7
    I need to try the 14 in my LS100 laser and see if I can IT to go black. The lens in it will NOT turn 6000 black, turns it dark gray, several shades lighter than my other machines. I know it's the lens and not the laser itself, I swapped in the LS900 lens and I got a nice black... I've been going to order a lens from II-VI but their website is frustrating-- But I just noticed II-VI lenses are available on ebay and amazon now...

    I'm about out of 6000 so this would be a good time to experiment with the 14, which is bottled not canned... Thinning, says water or DNA, anyone got a clue on a starting ratio?
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  8. #8
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    I donít Kev. I always used it out of the can.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Los Angeles
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    For the paste, I've always used between 1 Part Cermark to 2 Parts Denatured Alcohol. But I have heard of it being used at ratios of up to 1:10.
    ULS M-300 35W, Graphtec CE6000-60, Brother GT-541, Sawgrass SG400

  10. #10
    I always eyeball mine to the consistency of 2% milk. It flows well and covers in one coat. I always use DNA--it drys fast.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

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  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Shohola, PA Pocono Mountains
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    I have a jar of the paste from 2007 from Laserbits. Never had the laser power to use it...

    Does it go bad? Someday I might have the laser power to use it.

    AL
    1 Laser, 4 CarveWrights, Star 912 Rotary, CLTT, Sublimation, FC7000 Vinyl, 911 Signs, Street Signs, Tourist Products and more.
    Home of the Fire Department "Epoxy Dome Accountability Tag and Accountability Boards".

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    SE South Dakota
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL Ursich View Post
    I have a jar of the paste from 2007 from Laserbits. Never had the laser power to use it...

    Does it go bad? Someday I might have the laser power to use it.

    AL
    Al,
    It does not go "bad"! It does dry out and will need to be mixed with DNA and then agitated to get it to break down and combine with the DNA.
    I've had to "crush" up mine on occasion using a screwdriver. Once I got it usable I put a couple of SS ball bearings in the jar--I try to give 'em
    a good shaking every now and again (when I remember).

    Bruce
    Epilog TT 35W, 2 LMI SE225CV's
    CorelDraw 4 through 11
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