Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37

Thread: Shop Heat

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Okotoks AB
    Posts
    1,421
    Why the 7" floor.

  2. go easy when you turn the heat on in the new shop
    I had not considered that. Good idea. Thanks.

  3. #18
    Should you choose to go forward with the radiant do install a floor sensor. Go to the Rehau and Uponor sites for some good info.I always keep some pressure in the tubing for the pour and add a few drops of oil of wintergreen or peppermint to the tubing. That way if some meathead on the pour gets a bit to aggressive with the pour and cuts the tubing, you know it and can do the repair...hastily. It happens. also, use the Pex-A tubing. it has the oxygen barrier and is better.
    Tankless water heaters are generally designed to provide domestic temperatures. You will have widely variable flow in a home and a large delta T. Boilers generally will have a relatively fixed flow and a small delta T. Most manuf do not allow their tankless in heating applications. Takagi does allow this application and there are a lot of them out there working successfully. I would suggest that you go the extra mile and get a true wall hung boiler. There are many out there today. Navien, Lochinvar, Weil-McLein, Rinnai. They come in combi's and heat only. I am a fan of the new Rinnai Model I. You get a SS HX, modulating pump and a very robust outdoor reset (ODR) program built in. They are designed for what you are doing with them rather than putting a square peg in a round hole. The ODR will maximize your comfort, efficiency and overall performance of the system. You will be in to a radiant system for quite a pretty penny. Don't scrimp on the engine. Also, make sure your slab edge insulation is in order. I got a call from a contractor to go look at a customers home last year. Probably a 1500 sq ft very beautiful home. It was radiant heated and had zero slab edge insulation. In our relatively mild climate here in the foothills it was costing her $800-1000/mo for heat. She abandoned the system. She now heats the whole place with the EX-38 i suggested. Radiant is wonderful heat, but it is neither inexpensive to install nor to operate. You can minimize the operation expense by meticulous attention to the insulation package.
    Last edited by Jack Frederick; 10-31-2019 at 11:31 AM.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    1,151
    I installed pex tubing and insulated under my entire floor slab on my shop. My perimeter foundation is a four foot frost wall of Superform ICF. Budget ran out before I got to the boiler . I heat my entire shop with two overhead radiant gas fired tube heaters one is 50000 btu and one is 70000 btu. The floor is always warm,the insulation under it is the key as well as the frost wall around it that stops frost from penetrating under my floor. I probably will never hook up the floor heat now. In my mind money spent on insulation is money not wasted. I have r-28 in my walls and R-60 in my roof. Keeps me cool in summer and warm in winter.

  5. #20
    ON days I don't plan on spraying paint I heat my shop with a wood stove. Good way to get rid of scraps too.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    1,151
    I really wanted a wood stove in my shop as well,but insurance company vetoed that idea. If I ever hook up my in floor radiant heat I will probably use an outdoor wood furnace and circulation pump to power it.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Greeley, CO
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    ...I went mini-split for my installation and it barely blips our energy bill, unlike the resistance heat I used to use.
    I had to go to the google on this. I didn't realize how a heat pump could heat at 1/3 the cost of resistive heat since resistive heat is 100% efficient. Before I can run a mini-split its $3k to upgrade my service from 100A to 200A. But then I could run a welder and 220vac power tools.

    Edit: Lol, now I understand why they sell window size heat pumps that run on 120vac. $500 for a window sized HP that will handle my single car garage and hooks to my wifi makes total sense. Hmmmm.....
    Last edited by Eric Danstrom; 11-02-2019 at 2:26 PM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    50,188
    Eric, as long as you live in a climate that's within the sweet spot for a heat pump type system, today's units are pretty darn efficient, especially the mini-split type which can exceed 20 SEER. The temperature range should be in the specifications for every unit. Mine is supposed to be able to work down to -5F, but thankfully, that would be a very rare thing here in SE PA. They are certainly not inexpensive to acquire, of course, but they really work well. The small window type heat pumps work in a similar way, so if their output is capable of serving your space...and you have a window or can make a "window" in your wall...it's worthy of consideration.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
    Posts
    3,221
    I have never seen a noise rating for a window unit and they are less efficient then a minisplit. Note that db noise rating is a log scale so about 7-8 points more is twice as loud to the human ear. Many units are twice as loud or more then my Freidrich units. Some are louder on low then my units at forth speed!
    Bil lD

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in the Land of Lincoln
    Posts
    1,043
    If the floor was set up properly on install radiant heat should never be anymore expensive than any other form of heat. Other than burning wood you harvest yourself. Why would it be better to use a much more expensive hot water boiler than an on demand gas fired water heater. I got my specs from the Radiantec out of Vermont. They make their living on radiant heat. They said using on demand hot water heaters is the best heat source. Hot water boilers aren't designed or intended to run in the 120 degree range which is the ideal temperature. I hope to have mine going in the next month. So I will be able to give a first hand report. Usually when the result isn't as good as hoped for it's because the insulation isn't adequate. Some people were given poor advice upfront. They used the radiant barrier attic bubble insulation under the slab. That's woefully inadequate. I have 2" thick high density Styrofoam under my slab. It's amazing stuff. You don't even leave a foot print when you walk on it. Like with almost everything you do if you don't do the prep work needed the outcome won't be satisfactory. I know several people with it in my area and it's the best heat ever for a shop. When the floor is warm you don't need the room temp to be 70. You can set the thermostat at 60 and it's cozy. I will update my own experiences hopefully by the first of the year.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
    Posts
    3,221
    I think radiant heat is not for my climate. Mostly I need a little heat in the morning and evening nothing in the mid day portions. Does anyone use it for cooling?
    Bil lD

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Woodstock, VA
    Posts
    794
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    I think radiant heat is not for my climate. Mostly I need a little heat in the morning and evening nothing in the mid day portions. Does anyone use it for cooling?
    Bil lD
    The only downside to radiant is the fact that it can't cool. I installed a system from The Blue Ridge company out of Washington. My shop is a little over 1000 square feet and it was a little over 3k for all the pex and the complete system. By 'complete system' I mean that they build and mount the system on a stainless sheet and ship it complete. All you need to do is hang it, connect all pex and electricals, bleed the system, and you're heating.

    They were fantastic to work with.

    Also, at least for my system, there's an outdoor sensor that tells to system to not run if the outdoor temp spikes mid-day.

    I also used 2" foam under my slab and ICF forms for my foundation walls.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    50,188
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    I think radiant heat is not for my climate. Mostly I need a little heat in the morning and evening nothing in the mid day portions. Does anyone use it for cooling?
    Bil lD
    Bill, what you state is pretty important. Radiant heat can be a wonderful thing as it's comfortable heat. It's singular downside is that because you are heating a large mass of solid material which in turn heats the space, it's a technology that you want to be able to turn on at a particular point in time during the year...and leave on until heat is no longer required. it's not good for climates that are extremely variable or those that have short/sporadic needs for heat. The reason is that it takes some time to heat the mass up to a stable temperature and starts/stops just are not very efficient. Toward your question, I don't believe it would be effective at all for cooling in the traditional sense. Honestly, for your climate (and even mine) a heat pump/MiniSplit is a better overall solution, IMHO, because of the efficiency and amenability to only using it when it's needed.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    4,174
    I like to work with hand tools in front of a fireplace in really cold weather.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Northern UT
    Posts
    708
    My son asked if there was a way to put a meter on my gas line since I just came straight off the house, but after the meter. I know there are meters I can buy, but I am wondering if there is a way to estimate my gas usage based on water produced. I have a direct vent to the outside so obviously some water is lost there as vapor, but I still collect the actual water that drains out into a bucket until I get a drain line installed.

    Any thoughts?

    I read that every pound of natural gas produces 2.25 lbs of water, and that the water is approximately 12% of the total weight of gas burned. I also found that a pound (as with most of this these are averages and could be very different depending on location) of ng has about 20,000 BTUs.

    If I produce 5 gallons of water a week, converted to NG is 42 lbs, or 833,333 BTUs, and since we are charged $10 per mcf, it would be about $36 per month to heat.

    Does this seem anywhere near correct? Lots of variables I know and my number could be off by 40 - 50%, but is the actual calculation right?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •