Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 30 of 30

Thread: Suitable relay for three wire control on a VFD

  1. #16
    Of course David
    Three phase machines are far far, far cheaper in Ireland, and I only have 13amp receptacles in my rented house.
    If I were stuck with single phase machinery, I'd have a maximum of 2HP as it is, and have to change fuses often.
    And before you ask, No, I don't want to upgrade my supply to 16a MCB in the shed, as that would upgrade my rent also.
    Why, because I can tune in my machines with the soft start .....
    My 24" bandsaw uses the same juice on idle as the laptop I'm typing on right now.

    But hey you know that already, and no I don't wear gloves.
    I have to remind myself that you folks have a larger rated CU in your shops, than we have in our houses.

    I know some over there are a bit gung ho about tablesaws, but I choose, and advise to have the safest setup possible, and that means having a paddle.
    Speculating on why I choose to have a safe system sounds a bit silly.

    Now, if I could only get a straight answer as to why this component is rather difficult and confusing to get any information on,
    it would be a big help.
    I hope I've cleared up any reasons for this thread to get derailed with my cantankerous response.

    Sorry though, I do apologise for coming across as a briar.
    I will not be happy until I get my friends tablesaw working in a safe manner.
    It's the least I could do to pay back those who have helped me so much, when I was in my friends shoes.

    If it were a bandsaw or another friendly tool in comparison, I could let it slide and just have advised my mate to use a toggle switch.
    .
    My old Huanyang is sitting on a shelf waiting for an opportunity for anyone who is interested in seeking out why this component failed.
    All the best
    Tom

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    380
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Trees View Post
    It is for a tablesaw, so I have advised him that it was safer to have a hands free paddle switch for his stop button, rather than two wire control using a toggle switch
    Tom
    I have a paddle switch similar to the one shown below on my 5HP cabinet saw. This paddle switch will work in conjunction with your VFD to control the 3 phase AC voltage to your 3 phase motor. You can still use your momentary push button switches or toggle switches to control your VFD, then use this paddle switch to connect/disconnect the 3 phase AC voltage output from your VFD to your table saw 3 phase motor. If you can provide the make and model of your VFD, I will draw you a connection diagram to show you how to wire it up. The wiring diagram for your VFD would also be helpful.

    Maybe also consider editing your profile to show your location (Ireland). This might make it easier for members to provide helpful responses in the future.
    David





    Paddle switch front view.jpg Paddle switch side view.jpg
    Last edited by David Buchhauser; 10-12-2019 at 10:04 PM.

  3. #18
    Hi David
    Its the 3hp/2.2KW Huanyang VFD, I could recite the model HY02D223B in my sleep, I have studied just about every single aspect of it
    that is online, I know the in's and outs of it...
    That's not to say I fully understand how to fix it if the traces melt, but I can say I've done some homework on this VFD in particular
    The factory reset ALA ribbon cable trick if one uses a potentiometer and it cuts out
    Making the fan "shut up"
    How to fit the missing parts for a braking resistor to work
    And probably a few other things that don't come to mind now.

    Its probably a matter of time before someone documents what I'm after.
    It would be nice if I could start the ball rolling so some experienced person could come along and document it properly, in a knowledgeable professional fashion.

    The documentation on these is terrible, and I don't think it would be of much help.

    My post disappeared, and this is all that was saved.
    To sum it up again
    Its the switches for the VFD that is the problem, it wouldn't be if it was just two wire control.
    I think it seems unnecessary to have another switch to isolate power to the motor
    and probably expensive to get a switch rated for the motor output, that also controls a two wire control signal to the VFD.

    I walked my friend through the parameters explaining what they all meant, as he knew nothing more than wiring a plug at the time.
    He got the saw for a bargain and stumbled across my posts on a UK forum, as I have the same saw and am using the same inverter.
    I do not wish to overwhelm him, and to be perfectly honest I would rather learn how to do this first myself than be advising him to do something I haven't done before.
    I am not knowledgeable about this, only knowledgeable about certain basic aspects I can understand.
    so it could be a recipe for disaster.
    These things scare the dung out of me, and I'm very cautious and repetitive about the dangers involved if giving advice on them, but at the same time feel obliged
    as I can save the professionals from doing the basic explanation, so they can have more time to explain the more complicated things.
    I like to throw a wee question in now and again.

    I just imagine that the common could be either fixed or that it could be replaced for the price of a bag of chips...sorry French fries
    I might have a chat with "Cindy" and see what they say, if its not something straight forward I might be needing some help and will report back.
    They are very nice to talk with, although the language barrier can be a bit of a challenge,
    We shall see.
    Thanks David for your perseverance, and to all who chimed in.

    Tom







    Last edited by Tom Trees; Yesterday at 1:05 AM.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    380
    So it sounds like what you are after is to connect some sort of "paddle" switch directly to the VFD control inputs (FOR, REV, etc.). You are not interested in simply installing the "paddle" switch between the VFD outputs (U,V,W) and the motor. Am I correct in my assumption?




    Huanyang VFD.jpg

  5. #20
    Yes David
    I do not wish to involve the U,V,W motor terminals,
    and only want to have a separate start and stop button that goes into those small terminals for EXT switchgear.
    I don't want to isolate anything.

    The momentary push buttons do not work correctly on my friends inverter since the common is defective.
    The result of this defective part means that the motor will only run if his finger is held down on the start NO momentary button.

    If the common worked, he would not have to hold his finger on this button, and would run until he hit the stop NC momentary button.

    That's why I was saying that a toggle switch will work since its a permanent signal, the trouble is that a toggle switch does not make it straight forward to work with a paddle
    and takes some engineering like in this video @ the 5 minute mark into the demonstration.


    It looks like a bit of an awkward setup compared to a hinged plank with a dowel in it.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    380
    I now understand what you are trying to do. Is your friend able to start and stop the saw using the green and red buttons on the front of the VFD? The more information I have about the defects of his unit - the better.
    David

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    380
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Trees View Post

    The momentary push buttons do not work correctly on my friends inverter since the common is defective.
    The result of this defective part means that the motor will only run if his finger is held down on the start NO momentary button.

    If the common worked, he would not have to hold his finger on this button, and would run until he hit the stop NC momentary button.
    Which button does he have to hold his finger on to make it run? The green button on the front of the inverter, or an external button that he has wired to one of more of the terminals on the VFD?

  8. #23
    Hi David
    He has the external buttons wired into the terminals in the same configuration as I have shown .
    He has to hold his finger down onto this start NO push button and if he takes it off the motor stops.
    So the red NC stop button is of no use yet.
    I'd guess (but unsure) that it would only be effective if he kept one finger held on the start button, and with the other hand hit the red stop.

    Thanks
    Tom


    He tested the motor and VFD already using the keypad on the VFD and is happy with the unit, and does not want to send it back.
    H

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    380
    Please show me your configuration again with a wiring diagram. Which wires does he have attached to which terminals on the following diagram?
    Huanyang VFD.jpg

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tippecanoe County, IN
    Posts
    492
    Have you checked the parameter settings? According to the manual what you have should work:

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    380
    Your up early (or late depending on the time zone). Apparently the VFD in question is defective. Normally I would recommend that they buy a new one. The friend of the op is apparently on a budget. You might want consider reading the entirety of the post for a full explanation.
    David

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    380
    But if by some chance you have the solution to this problem, please share it with Tom and his friend. You might make all of us very happy. I have read your posts before and I have gathered that you are pretty much an expert on many fronts.
    David

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tippecanoe County, IN
    Posts
    492
    Quote Originally Posted by David Buchhauser View Post
    Your up early (or late depending on the time zone). Apparently the VFD in question is defective. Normally I would recommend that they buy a new one. The friend of the op is apparently on a budget. You might want consider reading the entirety of the post for a full explanation.
    David
    Who's up early? Indiana's in the Eastern time zone

    Actually, I've been following this thread from the beginning. I may be misunderstanding some of it but it looks to me like he has two identical VFDs with the same issue, one of which previously operated correctly.

    The default parameter settings would operate as described. It's necessary to change PD0046 to get the desired functioning.

    When I troubleshoot a problem I like to eliminate the easy stuff first. So, wiring, switch operation, and parameter settings. It appears that Tom has looked at the first two.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Aurora, IL
    Posts
    6
    I now see the paddle you are talking about and why you would want to go 3 wire.

    It may be an easy thing to swap the momentaries with a start stop switch and go back to 2 wire if you have them mounted in a junction box, but that may be too stiff of a switch for such a system.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    380
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Trees View Post
    Hi David
    He has the external buttons wired into the terminals in the same configuration as I have shown .
    He has to hold his finger down onto this start NO push button and if he takes it off the motor stops.
    So the red NC stop button is of no use yet.
    I'd guess (but unsure) that it would only be effective if he kept one finger held on the start button, and with the other hand hit the red stop.

    Thanks
    Tom


    He tested the motor and VFD already using the keypad on the VFD and is happy with the unit, and does not want to send it back.
    H
    Hi Tom,
    Here is a latching push button switch that I think will work for your friend. Push it once and it stays on, push it again and it turns off. A latching relay would work also, but may be "overkill" for your application.
    David


    • Mounting Hole Size : Φ19mm
    • LED voltage: 12V DC ;Blue LED Light
    • Shell Metarial:ZN-AL ALLOY (waterproof design)
    • Self-locking Switch , Press the button switch work ; Press the button again ,switch stop work .
    • Latching Push Button Switch can be applied to car motorcycle modificine ,electric equipment ,appliance,machine ,home Lamps and so on


    https://www.amazon.com/Quentacy-Latc...ustrial&sr=1-1

    Latching Push Button Switch.jpg

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •