Go to college vs. learn a trade?

[Al Launier]

Mike Rowe's opinion; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVEuPmVAb8o

Good reference John. Mike provides good insight into the problem of "what to do & how to get there", i.e. know yourself first, then proceed.

There is much written & spoken about what one should choose for a lifetime work career, but less emphasis is made on seriously studying what the future of the job market(s) will hold as the world evolves; in the trades field, the arts, science and technology. No one has a working crystal ball, but reviewing the latest trends and projecting them into the future as possible choices should help guide one's decision.

The world has developed to an enormous extent in a very short period of "historical" time. Former traditional & very worthwhile careers have, or are reaching their useful lives. Look at what has evolved over the past 100 years, a relatively short time, and then anticipate where man's ingenuity will take us next, and what will be needed to support the future of mankind. In my opinion the future belongs to the exploration of space and beyond. Many of the trades and technologies will evolve accordingly, requiring new & different skill sets. Research the future!

[Ron Selzer]

(One more issue with the construction trades: Generally you don't get paid vacation, it is up to you to take time off without pay. Tough to do.)

Locals I have been familiar with in Ohio while working the construction trade the last 30+ yrs have a separate fund that x amount an hr worked goes into for vacation, holidays, etc..HOWEVER most locals the workers can withdraw the money out of the bank each week as soon as it is put in and a lot of them do! Then they complain how they don't get paid if they don't work. One local down by the Ohio River in an area that is very rural pays the money out once a year with NOTICE TO THE SPOUSE AHEAD of the payment. Amazing how those guys go on vacation way more often. Good HVAC mechanics get premium over contracted rate, plus extra paid vacation time, plus new van to change companies, also for staying where they are at. ANY company can pay a worker higher than scale to recruit or retain a tradesmen, HOWEVER they can not pay lower no matter how bad the worker is.

[Brian Elfert]

My employer has a group of several hundred professional workers in a union. Workers in the union can only max out at 110% of scale. (I am not in a union.)

[Mike Henderson]

I was talking to a plumber friend of mine last week. He's in his 50's. He was complaining about the various aches and pains he has. He said, "When you start in a trade they tell you that the work will make you strong. That's BS. It eventually breaks you down."

Some people who learn a trade eventually start a business and then they hire people to do the grunt work. But most obviously don't do that and try to keep working into their senior years. Additionally, I expect many do not make enough to set aside a significant amount for retirement so they have to keep working.

I got an engineering degree. I worked in a clean, air conditioned office, and worked on interesting problems. I was well compensated and had benefits, such as an employer paid pension, health insurance, paid vacation, 401K with employer match, etc. I had the weekends off. I also got to travel the world on my employer's tab (for business).

If a young person has the interest and capability I would strongly recommend getting a university degree, especially if it's a STEM degree. Finance and accounting graduates also seem to do well.

Mike

[If I was to offer advice to a young person, it would be work hard while you're young, especially in your studies, and you can have a reasonably easy older life. Or don't work hard while you're young and you'll work hard for the rest of your life.]

[jared herbert]

I graduated from high school in 1969. At the time it was either go to college or get drafted. I went to a good state university, worked my way through and graduated 4 years later with a degree in industrial engineering. I took a job in my field with Pella window company. It was not a real good fit. After a year and a half I had the opportunity to start farming with my dad. Eventually I bought him out and farmed for 41 years. I know there was a lot of talk behind my back amongst the neighbors that I wasted 4 years ofschooling, etc etc. I didn’t look at it that way. The decision making and analysis skills that I learned in the engineering business served me well in the ag business. I don’t regret either choice at all. I retired 3 years ago, have a substantial net worth and can do whatever I want to. The thing I am really glad for is that I am in good health and haven’t needed any joint replacement surgeries like most of my contemporaries have had. That is the real down side to a job that requires a lot of physical work

[Roger Feeley]

Do what you love. If that's engineering, great. If it's carpentry, equally great.

Back in another life, I taught high school. We had this kid, Hunter, who wanted to be a carpenter. But his dad was a lawyer so Hunter was going to be one too. His dad was also president of the school board and he bullied HS teachers to make Hunter's college application better. Hunter went to college and dropped out after a couple of semesters. I lost track after that.

My school district was a very affluent suburban one and was very proud of the college admission rate of 80%. A counselor told me our dirty little secret. A full 60% of that 80% never made it to their sophomore year. So our school set 48% of their graduates up for failure.

[Terry Kelly]

I went to Junior College for a year then went on to get electronic engineering degree....at the time of my graduation there weren’t many engineering jobs available in what interested me personally I took a job back at home more like a electronic tech position.....after a year and a half I knew it was a dead end I had started to take some more classes towards electrical side of things and eventually got into the IBEW,I’ve been a Journeyman Wireman for 25 years it was the Best decision I made. My college education probably gave me an edge getting accepted into the apprenticeship. Fortunately my education was around 40k and it has long been paid for but it return has been more than worth it. So in my case I’ve done both and ended up going the trade route in the end..... My son was set to go to school for mechanical engineering in his junior year of high school,during his senior year he decided that he wanted to go for the trades and is now a Pipefitter apprentice. I really wanted him to go to school but in the end he has to do what makes him happy....

[Mike Henderson]

My school district was a very affluent suburban one and was very proud of the college admission rate of 80%. A counselor told me our dirty little secret. A full 60% of that 80% never made it to their sophomore year. So our school set 48% of their graduates up for failure.

The problem I've seen with certain high schools is that they aren't demanding enough. They allow the students to coast along and still get high grades.

Then, when those kids go to a real university they are not prepared for the work and dedication required to succeed. They think they can just coast like they did in high school and, of course, they can't. University is a different world than high school. It's a shame that many high schools don't really prepare the kids for what they will encounter in college.

[Added: the competition is totally different. A student who was considered bright in high school finds that there's a lot of bright kids in college, many smarter and harder working than they are. Instead of being an academic leader they're just back in the pack somewhere.

Some state universities have tried to avoid issues with admissions by automatically admitting the top 5% of any high school in the state. But some of those high schools are pretty bad and the top students at those schools are not at all prepared for university studies. But the university gets to show that it's admitting a cross section of the population, even though they know some of those kids will never survive to graduate.

Helping a bright kid from a poor family has to start early. Offering them a scholarship to a top university means nothing if they have not received the preparation that will allow them to succeed in that environment.]

Mike

[Frederick Skelly]

The problem I've seen with certain high schools is that they aren't demanding enough. They allow the students to coast along and still get high grades.

Then, when those kids go to a real university they are not prepared for the work and dedication required to succeed. They think they can just coast like they did in high school and, of course, they can't. University is a different world than high school. It's a shame that many high schools don't really prepare the kids for what they will encounter in college.

[Added: the competition is totally different. A student who was considered bright in high school finds that there's a lot of bright kids in college, many smarter and harder working than they are. Instead of being an academic leader they're just back in the pack somewhere.

Some state universities have tried to avoid issues with admissions by automatically admitting the top 5% of any high school in the state. But some of those high schools are pretty bad and the top students at those schools are not at all prepared for university studies. But the university gets to show that it's admitting a cross section of the population, even though they know some of those kids will never survive to graduate.

Helping a bright kid from a poor family has to start early. Offering them a scholarship to a top university means nothing if they have not received the preparation that will allow them to succeed in that environment.]

Mike

+1. All good points Mike.

[Ron Citerone]

That said, USA could stand to learn quite a bit from the old continent, especially Germany, about producing skilled tradespeople, and the old continent could learn quite a bit from North America about giving young people choices.

I had a career as an Industrial Arts teacher. Your perspective is very profound, and I think you nailed it!

[Carroll Courtney]

Yrs ago I was told that you have two choices,you can choose your career or a career can choose you.Which I fell under the second,but its not my fault I was not college material and if I was I still would not know what to do even if I did have brains. I think problem is college education is such a big business that in high schools its drill into heads that student has to go.(Work in main dept for school district) so all over the schools from middle to high school is college banners.Well back to the top of this post,lot of kids are not college material. I know I wish I was and I'm sure lot of others wish the same cause like Mike Henderson saying in first post its not easy life in trade. When your young you don't notice it which I was a union electrician working on bldgs downtown. None of the other trades were easy which electrical was better I think. You want to be Iron Worker,try walking a 4x4 on ground then think about walking a beam lets say 10 floors up. Carpenter in commercial trade still not easy and like any trade dangerous. Plumbers well your down in hole or running pipe overhead,same for Pipe Fitters.Anyway the list goes on about the physical part of it. But keep in mind the summers,winters, which winters you may be setting at home cause job shut down,do you get paid heck no you don't. Like my old boss told me when I needed a day off he told me " Take off as much you can afford" Again a trade is not easy as you get older.Safety? Well you go to meetings you watch films,you practice safety but people still die. While working downtown on bldg I was working in the Atrium area which is open area on third floor saw a Glazer fall to his death only 20yrs old. Another job saw a Manitowoc Crane cable break while they were lowering boom which cable hit one of guys that all he does is oil,grease crane. So no guarantees in trade field that you be around next day. Now for the most part or for me there are no paid vacations,no sick leave,no PB's days and very small retirement if ones with degree invest your money wisely. Like others have said in trade field while out there learn all you can and keep up to date with bldg practice then start your own business if you got the drive. Keep in mind that construction is like the weather one day its sunny skis and then next you be asking where did all work go,no work well no pay. But when the economic is good so is the work. Thats why you will see lot of business doing more than one trade so maybe they will have work yr round. So what is the point of all this,get a degree none of it is easy.At lease if you have degree and you go into a trade you be boss or its your company. In the trade no one is going to get rich nor have lots of those benefits unless its your company and business is good. Life is tough when you make living from shoulders down,but just enough that a person can do little wwing sometimes