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Thread: Girls Scouts vs Boy Scouts when it comes to Woodworking Badge - my rumblings.

  1. #1
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    Girls Scouts vs Boy Scouts when it comes to Woodworking Badge - my rumblings.

    So I have a son and a daughter involved in Scouts, and the leader of the Girl Scout Troop said that the troop wanted to do the woodworking badge next, and if I'd help with getting a simple project together for the girls. I said sure, figuring that it was somewhat similar to the Boy Scout woodworking badge requirements. After I got home and got on the Googles to see what the requirements were, my SWMBO suggested that I go take a walk before I had a coronary.


    I mean, I get it that presumption is that girls are not trained / exposed / expected to learn about tools and maintenance in their formative years, so they might be starting from a position of having less practical experience. My daughter kept getting invited to be involved when I was making her bedroom furniture - and I dare say she maybe spent a total of 60 minutes during the 120+ hours of the build assisting, and most of that was helping clean the shop. When it came to cutting, measuring, etc . . . she magically disappeared. So it's not like she didn't have the opportunity to learn, but at that time she lacked the interest. If that's the norm - I can see why there would need to be more of a ramp up in "getting to know your tools" to properly earn a Woodworking badge.


    However, let me summarize the 5 sections of the Girl Scouts Woodworking badge as opposed to the first 5 (of 7) sections of the Boy Scouts Woodworking badge:


    First Step:
    Girl Scouts - Swing a Hammer - learn how to properly use a hammer by hammering nails into a piece of scrap lumber - Draw a shape on the wood and outline it in nails.
    Boy Scouts - Explain what hazards you might encounter while doing woodworking, and what you can do to anticipate/prevent/mitigate and respond to those hazards. Show that you know the first aid for any injuries that can happen during woodworking, Tell what precautions must be taken to prevent loss of eyesight/hearing, and why a dust mask is important.


    Second Step:
    Girl Scouts - Keep It Level. Learn how to make sure your work is level and plumb. Borrow a level and use that level to check things around the house or your meeting area. Straighten any pictures or wall hangings that might be askew, check things like floors/counters/rails to see how they measure up.
    Boy Scouts - Describe how timber is grown, harvested, and milled. Tell how lumber is cured, seasoned, and sized. Collect and label blocks of 6 different species of wood useful in woodworking, describing the chief qualities of each and best uses of each.


    Third Step:
    Girl Scouts - Attach it, Detach it. Using either a screwdriver or power drill (or both), drill six screws into a piece of scrap wood. How can you unscrew those screws?
    Boy Scouts - Show the proper care, use, and storage of all the woodworkign tools and equipment that you own or use at home/school. Sharpen correctly the cutting edges of two different tools.


    Fourth Step:
    Girl Scouts - Saw the Alphabet. Use a miter saw to saw some wood so that you can build letters.
    Boy Scouts - Using only a saw, plane, hammer, brace&bit - make something useful out of wood. Cut parts from lumber that you have squared and measured from working drawings.


    Fifth Step:
    Girl Scouts - Build yourself Something. Work with your expert to find a project idea - birdhouses, picture frames, benches or small bookcases.
    Boy Scouts - Create your own woodworking project. Begin by making working drawings, materials list - and then build it. Keep track of the time you spend and cost of materials.


    Now, I look at these two side by side - and I rumble mightily. In my humble opinion - one of the main benefits of this badge should not be just another badge on the scarf - it should be practically getting familiar with tools and the independence that knowing how to use tools bring. These girls may never do casework, cabinetwork, or build their own house . . . which is fine. But I see a gap where practical tool use could be added to help make them more ready for life - whether doing crafts or just general household maintenance.


    So my question, and I'm especially interested in the female woodworkers opinion - am I setting my expectations too high? If you had to make changes to the badge criteria/progression, either adding elements, removing elements, what would they be?

  2. #2
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    I would contact a local Boy Scout troop and see if they could find a way to let girls go to some of their classes.

  3. #3
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    Absolutely they should much more equivalent. I was fortunate to grow up in a house with woodworking opportunities for both males and females. My brother and I both enjoy it, though we do different types of projects. My sister on the other hand calls me to hang a picture. How can a Girl Scout even assess whether she has interest in woodworking with that ridiculously lame expectation.

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    The girls should have the same coursework as the boys. Girls need to be taught they can do anything boys can do and to have the confidence to do so.

    Sounds like the scouts are living in the past, as we’ve found out over the past few years for other reasons.

  5. #5
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    Based on the curriculum requirements I don't see why you can't do essentially exactly the same thing for both groups. Yes, there are slight differences (where do you even find a brace and bit these days?), and boys that grow up to do construction could certainly use that lesson on levels. Both groups need to learn something about wood and tools and then make something, as I read it. It's up to the advisor to make that a meaningful experience, the requirements provide only the barest bones.

    Yes, the Boy Scouts do have a tendency to be more prescriptive in their requirements, I'm not sure that's a good thing. In our troop steps 1, 2 , and 3 for the boys would have gotten pretty short shrift-- a total of 10 minutes effort for all three. The emphasis was always on getting them doing something physical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowell holmes View Post
    I would contact a local Boy Scout troop and see if they could find a way to let girls go to some of their classes.
    She can likely join the "boy" scouts formally, too...BSA is no longer gender specific.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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    I see the girls starting to us their hands and do something from day one. The boys have three book work things to do before they touch any tools. Yes the girl projects are lame, but at least they are using tools.

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    Is there a cooking badge? It would be interesting to see how the requirements differ there. You have to assume that the requirements were set up that way for a reason and based on experience of what to expect from kids at that age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Calow View Post
    Is there a cooking badge? It would be interesting to see how the requirements differ there. You have to assume that the requirements were set up that way for a reason and based on experience of what to expect from kids at that age.
    Age matters of course, but gender should not. Boys should learn cooking too. I didn’t learn until my mid 20’s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Day View Post
    Age matters of course, but gender should not. Boys should learn cooking too. I didn’t learn until my mid 20’s.
    Agreed! When I was in 5-6th grade in the '60s, everyone took shop class and home economics - basically cooking. Boys and girls. As I recall boys were just as inept, unskilled and uninterested in cooking, as the girls were in shop. Its what the culture had already taught us to be. Just like girls were supposed to hate math and science. I think I flunked cinnamon toast and hot chocolate.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post
    Yes, there are slight differences (where do you even find a brace and bit these days?)
    At my house, and my dad's house. Yes I have corded and uncorded drills, but sometimes it's better to take it slow.

    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post
    Both groups need to learn something about wood and tools and then make something, as I read it. It's up to the advisor to make that a meaningful experience, the requirements provide only the barest bones.
    Agreed, that's what I'm trying to navigate. I don't want to go in there and totally take over and poo on their current badge criteria . . .just mostly. Yes they start with getting their hands on tools earlier, but I'm thinking that as they are introduced to the tools - there could be a significant nod to the boy's version as far as safety goes for starters.

    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post
    In our troop steps 1, 2 , and 3 for the boys would have gotten pretty short shrift-- a total of 10 minutes effort for all three. The emphasis was always on getting them doing something physical.
    To be fair, you can breeze through the first two sections for the boys in about 10 minutes, which for the younger boy scouts is about the limits of their attention span, especially my son. My thoughts is that yes, both groups need to be physically doing something, and there's no harm in discussing safety and first aid while teaching them about various tools . . .and as for the girls, seems like a pretty good idea to start with "This is the project that everyone will be doing, and there will be steps where you will need all these various tools - hammer, level, screwdriver, drill, saw, etc . . .". That way all the requirements will be met, but there's always a goal in mind and the girls will gain a bit more appreciation about how, where, and why to use a particular tool . . . rather than "nail nails into a board making a pattern." Nothing wrong with that, but I'd argue at this stage - not enough right about it. But I could be biased . . . .

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    Agreed, I had to learn to cook and do housework when I was 10 . . . and I'm still a better cook than my sister.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Calow View Post
    Is there a cooking badge? It would be interesting to see how the requirements differ there. You have to assume that the requirements were set up that way for a reason and based on experience of what to expect from kids at that age.
    Boy Scouts does have a cooking merit badge - in fact, it's one of the original merit badges, created in 1911, and it's one of the dozen or so that is required to become an Eagle Scout.

    The requirements for the cooking badge are pretty extensive, and run sort of parallel to those for the woodworking badge:
    (1) Health and safety
    (2) Nutrition
    (3) Cooking basics
    (4) Cooking at home - plan a menu for a breakfast, lunch and dinner; prepare shopping lists for each and cost out each meal; prepare each meal for at least one adult; demonstrate you can manage your time to serve the meal when promised
    (5) Camp cooking - plan a menu for a breakfast, lunch, dinner and snack to be served to the troop; prepare shopping lists and cost out each meal; prepare two of the meals, outdoors, using camping equipment
    (6) Trail and backpacking meals - similar to camp cooking, but no refrigeration allowed
    (7) Food related careers - learn about three career opportunities in cooking (education, training, experience, etc.)

    Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are separate organizations, and seem to have a very different approach to merit badges. The Boy Scout badge requirements look very much like what you might see for some type of professional certification - identify knowledge and skills required; demonstrate a level of proficiency in those knowledge and skills in a prescribed way.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Calow View Post
    Is there a cooking badge? It would be interesting to see how the requirements differ there.
    Well, based on the woodworking example, I'd suspect something like:

    Boy Scouts -
    Step 1: build a fire
    Step 2: boil water
    Step 3: make PB&J sandwich
    ...

    Girl Scouts -
    Step 1: write a biography of Martha Stewart
    Step 2: sew pouch for grocery coupons
    Step 3: use the word "kale" in a sentence
    ...
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
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  15. #15
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    Boy Scout camps also allow Girl Scout troops to camp there. I have had limited exposure to the girl scouts, but I have seen them doing crafts and having nail painting sessions.

    The Boy Scouts haven't done the best job explaining the whole boy/girl thing even to members, but my understanding is once girls in the program reach Boy Scout age the boys and girls go into troops separated by sex.

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