Festool track saw failure / repair cost

[Mike Goetzke]

The Festool and Makita tracks etc. are interchangeable.

Just a caution here. I first replaced a bunch of my old track saw system components with the Makita cordless and never looked back. I was use to having a deeper cut saw for my rough sawn lumber so jumped on a Festool TS75 saw with 75" rail recon deal. What I found out was the guide rib to anti-chip edge on the rails is not the same. I think about 0.015" off. So the problem is you need to adjust the saw to the tracks constantly. I ended up selling the Festool rail and buying a Makita so all my rails are the same.

OP'r - if you are looking for a new saw I highly recommend the Makita cordless. Wasn't cheap but I added a Mafell dust bag to the Makita and no more leashes!

Mike

[DENNIS BURNS]

tear down of the festool TS55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oezp-_DcUgg&t=585s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mo2L_jFKmc

[Erik Loza]

Was just in a customer's shop who does lots of jobsite work and he got rid of the Festool for a Mafell.

Erik

[Phillip Mitchell]

Yep, that's what I was going to say in my previous post was that if I did strictly or even mostly job site finish work (cabinet installs, finish carpentry, etc) and didn't have a shop with a nice cabinet saw that I worked out of as much as I do, then I'd be able to justify the Mafell purchase for myself. I think that's really where it shines and becomes something that really pays for itself many times over in its durability, accuracy and efficiency. Hard for somebody to justify if they're working out of a well outfitted shop often.

I've used a lot of Mafell tools (mostly timber framing tools - portable bandsaw, chain mortiser, drill guides, beam saws) over the years and they are all worth the admission price if you're doing enough of those specific tasks at a high level of efficiency and accuracy, but for the hobbiest...eh, unless you just have cash to blow and want the absolute best.

[Mark Bolton]

I have the same complaint as Peter, I use the routers and have otherwise greatly reduced the amount of Festool stuff I use. I have such little patience for the track saw anymore that I’d rather draw a line and bandsaw by eye.

These tools seem engineered for 18mm plywood and everything else is a struggle even when conditions are met such as proper blade.

My Kapex struggled through most cuts, especially in heavy material where the similarly sized bit appropriately motored OMGA cuts through 12/4 ash like it’s not even there.

I had a short stint with a (now friend) who owned an industrial supply business and at the time (long ago) was a Metabo rep.. Had the joy of going to a couple of Metabo junkets, training, abrasives manufacturing, and so on. At that time they were the innovators in electronic tools (tools that run on 90 volts holding the remaining 30 in reserve an apply it as load is applied). Somewhat common now but still throws people for a loop when a tool races up and then throttles back to a lower speed before hitting the work. We struggled with these tools endlessly in our market (US) because with a tool like an angle grinder the typical user is use to gauging the amount of working being done (cutting action) by bogging the tool down and bearing down on it. They dont really pay attention to the actual work being done, its sound and feel. Needless to say, angle grinders would come back pretty much melted down. A couple were so freshly dead they were still smoking. This was because an electronic tool will pretty much never bog until death, it will just apply more power.

Long story longer,... in many of these events it was pretty much made clear that Metabo at that time was consciously abandoning the US market because they were making tools for people who knew how to use tools and respected tools. I remember at the time one of their rare re-branded tools was the old skill saw that had the grease reservoir with the cap below the trigger (may have been made by PC?) and periodically you were suppose to give that cap a 1/4 turn to push some fresh grease into the bearings of the saw. They said they had saws coming in with cooked bearings where the cap had never once been rotated. Today of course bearings are never an issue you just pitch the saw. I have a beautiful old milwaukee circular saw that I have replaced the bearings in perhaps 2-3 times in 35 years, re-brushed 2-3 times, a new switch or two, who knows how many cord replacements.

People dont care for tools like that anymore.

To the point of the Festool, I can only imagine the underpowered nature of the tool is that the german philosophy is you dont rip through a sheet of material as fast as we are accustomed to here in the US. You dont rout as fast, cut as fast, you dont push your tools as hard. You work as a master craftsman.

I'd love to have that luxury but I dont. Which is why there is not a Festool tool in my shop and never will be other than perhaps a Domino which would be very handy by the looks.

Hopefully they banked while banking was good because the alternate offerings out there are smoking them right now and if parts pricing is anything like their tool pricing repair (even self repair) will be pointless.

[Edwin Santos]

To the point of the Festool, I can only imagine the underpowered nature of the tool is that the german philosophy is you dont rip through a sheet of material as fast as we are accustomed to here in the US. You dont rout as fast, cut as fast, you dont push your tools as hard. You work as a master craftsman.

This is an interesting statement, and I think there is some merit to it. I have taken workshops with two well known master woodworkers, and each advocated taking it easier on tools, routing in multiple passes with smaller bites, etc.

[andrew whicker]

According to what I see on the two vendors websites, Mafell is only 60 watts / 0.1 HP 'stronger' than Festool. Am I missing something?

I never liked the buzziness of my Festool tracksaw. Seeing this thread has me a bit bummed that I spent so much money down this path. It's enlightening that I'm not the only who was questioning what they spent their hard earned dollars on.

[David Gutierrez]

since wood working is my hobby, not my living it i do not want to spend the money for a Mafell. i am going to look hard at Dewalt if i can use it with my festool tracks and MFT. i think makita or dewalt will provide the right value equation for me. i will take a look at Bosch no harm in looking.

[David Gutierrez]

yes they will not re- assembly with out further payment. as a side note i called and gave them my payment info yesterday and i recieved another call today requesting the payment info again. called them back and they are checking to be sure i have not being billed twice for the return shipping.
i will have some fun trying to repair it.

[Jim Dwight]

David,

Good luck. It may still work out. I often worry that when I take a car for repairs the mechanics just put on parts until it works. If some of them didn't need replaced, I will ever know. Hopefully that is what is going on with your saw.

I always thought the TS55 had a little smaller motor than others to help some people justify the TS75. There is a Festool Owners Group forum and there is a portion of it devoted to problems with Festool tools. People are pretty polite there even when you don't say totally good things about Festools. I wouldn't hessitate to visit and see if there is useful information. I haven't noticed a lot of issue with track saws but I wasn't really looking for that information either.

The only issue I've had with my DeWalt is changing blades. The process is kind of complicated, especially compared to the Festool, and I got frustrated with my saw when a button wouldn't depress (probably because of sawdust buildup I didn't take the time to address) and tapped it with a hammer. That broke off a little piece of the mechanism on a casting. But now it is actually quite a bit easier to change blades. Saw still works fine. But I would check out the blade change process before you buy a DeWalt. I think the criticism in that area is valid. The plunge mechanism is also different than the pivot the Festool and Makita make. I like it better but if you are used to the Festool you may not. I do not think criticism in that area is valid but I also think others have the right to prefer what they prefer. The Makita lacks a riving knife. The DeWalt anti-kickback device is probably better than Makita and Festool. You can also turn if off if you don't want to use it (or you like going backward on the track). Another thing you may want to check is whether the dado in the DeWalt saw adjusts for size to snug up on the Festool track. I am pretty sure you use a different dado of the base than the DeWalt track but I don' remember seeing the adjustment parts on both dados. If it doesn't do that, the fit on the festool track might be a little loose.

Jim

[Mike Cutler]

According to what I see on the two vendors websites, Mafell is only 60 watts / 0.1 HP 'stronger' than Festool. Am I missing something?

I never liked the buzziness of my Festool tracksaw. Seeing this thread has me a bit bummed that I spent so much money down this path. It's enlightening that I'm not the only who was questioning what they spent their hard earned dollars on.

Andrew
Don't be bummed out.
Yes tools can fail. All of them,regardless of color or brand. There is no tool sold that can be advertised with a zero failure rate.For every one tool failure you read about, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of others, exactly like it, that are quietly just doing the job they were bought for.
I live 3.5miles from a Home Depot and a Lowes. I also live 2.5 miles from an authorized DeWalt/Makita/Bosch/Milwaukee, repair center. That guy isn't hurting for business.
Festool makes nice stuff, they really do, and they maintain the integrated system approach across the product line, and that's what you're buying into.
For the record, yes, I own some Festool tools. I have the TS-75 that had no problem ripping through 2" jatoba/padauk/bubinga,etc. slabs. I also have the OF 1400 and OF2200 routers. I have used a lot of routers in my life and none are as nice, or as powerful, as the OF2200. I also have a Carvex Jig saw. It's pretty cool. I don't use it alot, but it seems to work just fine.
Don't suffer buyers remorse, they're just tools. Take care of them, keep them clean, use them within their spec's, and they'll probably last you a long time.

[Brian Holcombe]

Mark, If that is true it certainly seems to run contrary to their machine building style which is typically extremely robust and powerful machinery.

In running mills I learned about ‘feeds and speeds’ every cutter has it’s theoretical ideal feed rate at a given speed so long as the machine is robust enough not to flex during the process. A machine that has power in excess and a high level of robustness is going to let the operator work at ideal speeds depending on the goal at hand. The goal in woodworking is a clean finish, without burning, that produces a dimensionally accurate result.

Point is, the cutter should be the limiting factor here, not the machinery. Working a saw too slowly through a cut invites burning. An underpowered saw does no one a favor, it draws excessive amperage, dies sooner than it should, more often burns the work, makes a rough finish and wears the cutter much more rapidly.

[Edwin Santos]

Brian, you're more experienced than I but I've adopted the "smaller bites" approach to my woodworking. This means lighter passes at the jointer, planer, router. I think removing less wood in more passes gives me a better quality of cut, but that's just intuitive, not based on some type of controlled test. Of course, this has less to do with feed rate and more to do with the amount of wood being removed in a given pass. This might not be a right/wrong thing, just two different approaches.

With track saws, I believe they mainly ship with finishing blades, and it is possible that what seems like lack of power to many users is really just the application of a too high a tooth pitch for the job at hand. I have three blades for my track saw and indeed if I use the finishing blade to cut hardwood or even dense sheet goods like Baltic Birch, it will act like it's under-powered when in reality it is just being limited by the blade. I too find it hard to believe that any of the Festool products are truly under-powered, but then again I don't own their track saw either so maybe it's not for me to say.

[Brian Holcombe]

It depends for me entirely on the process at hand. I’m not impatient with my tools, I don’t abuse them and I don’t overwork them. What I expect from a circular saw has no bearing on how I operate a router.

Cutting with a circular saw is something I want to do in one pass. Multiple passes waste my time and produce a worse cut.

Proper blade must be used, proper ‘feed’ rate as well and in my experience that festool really takes its time.

I take light passes with my jointer, I also take moderate or heavy passes, it depends on what I’m doing. If stock is far from flat I’m not taking .020” cuts, but if I’m running it again after setting it aside for a few weeks I will take as light a cut as the machinery allows and do so with a very slow speed.

Light cuts at a slow speed wears out your cutters considerably faster than moderate cuts at a moderate speed. Most cutter heads have an ideal cut, minimum and maximum.

[Jerome Stanek]

Sounds like Festools are to be used like a butter knife on a steak. As for routers the Porter Cable 7518-19 are pretty much the strongest out there and will out last most other brands