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Thread: New shop, musing and questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Rochester, Minn
    Posts
    106

    New shop, musing and questions

    My spouse and I will be have a new house in 6 weeks, which means moving the shop. My current is a gambrel roofed garage, 22 x 28, that I built 20 years ago. The lower portion is heated, wood is upstairs. Ceiling height is 8'8" since I started with a row of cement block. A staircase + a single post exactly in the middle have always made the equipment arrangement challenging, but I've worked out a pretty good plan.

    The new location has a 32x48 pole shed, 10'2" to the top of the plate that holds the trusses, 4:12 roof, cement floor, one large sliding door and one regular, 100 amp service, no heat and no water. The shed has styrofoam inserts between the horizontal studs, both sidewall and roof, but I'd hardly consider it insulated. I'm working through ideas about the new space.

    1. I don't like being cold, so will build an insulated box inside the shell. Sidewalls I'll fur out flush with the inside of the posts (12" square) and fill it with blown in cellulose or fiber. But what do do with the ceiling? One choice would be to sheetrock below the trusses and fill the top with 16". A white ceiling will certainly make it brighter. One down side is that I'd like to stack my lumber vertically, and just 3 weeks ago I bought a stash of walnut (1100 bf) from a nice gentleman that has realized he'll never get to it (over 80 and recent stroke). About 2/3 of it is 13.5 -14 foot 15/16" by 12" boards, air dried for 20+ years (not live edge), and the other 1/3 is 11-12 feet and 7-10" wide. (There was another 60 bf of misc butternut and maple, but that's all 10 ft or less, for a grand total of $2625).
    Are there other good choices for the ceiling?

    2. In the current shop I laid fomular250 foam over the concrete with OSB over the top, no sleepers. A simple computation said that it should work fine, and it has. Consider my 1947 Unisaw: the base is about 2' square and if you assume the osb can spread that 1" to each side of the contact point this gives 200 square inches of bearing surface over 250 PSI foam = 22 tons. I did put two strips of solid wood under the Moak bandsaw (26", 1100 pounds) out of caution, but had no trouble rolling it into position on 3/4 pipes, from one side of the shop to the other. I'm thinking of 3" of fomular400 underneath OSB (I don't like cold feet either). I won't be able to run dust collection in the floor, but could certainly put a vertical piece of 4x4 in selected locations for power.

    3. I originally planned to carve out a 32 x 32 part of the space, and leave the rest unfinished, for a tractor or whatever -- not that I own one. It would give me 1.67 the amount of current space (and no post in the middle!). But the more I think of it, the more I wonder whether I should use it all.

    4. I'll need to trench the natural gas over, about 250 feet. What type of heater do people recommend? Breaking up the cement floor and starting over ain't gonna happen, by the way, so we can leave out in-floor.

    5. My Oneida cyclone (5 HP) came from a commercial shop, along with 5 8' tall by 12" diameter felt dust bags (open at both ends). Nice heavy stuff. I didn't have room for those in the current shop and use 2 Wynn filters. Should I reinstate the felt now that I'll have room? Use both?

    Current hardware: 16" minimax Jointer-planer, 6" Yates jointer. 6' by 6' square with Delta unisaw on the left, Delta HD shaper behind it as an outfeed, Atlas table saw to the right as a surface (one fence for both), router table in the 4th corner. 26" Moak bandsaw, 14" Walker-Turner bandsaw, Ekstrom Carlson edge sander on stand (80"x 6" belt), rolling tool chest with Delta benchtop drill on it (and tools in it), Oneida cyclone, Dewalt radial arm saw, home-made slot cutter/mortiser, bench with Yost patternmakers vise, hand tools, clamps, etc.

    Terry T

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    257
    I’m very happy with the Rinnai direct vent heaters. Very efficient and not too expensive. Model is ES38 CT? Get the one which works with a thermostat.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    49,911
    Sounds like it's going to be a great shop. As an aside, my shop has similar space challenges to the one you're leaving in that I also have the stairs to the upper level when I also store my wood smack in the middle of the back wall and routing back to front. I'm sure that will be one thing you will NOT miss from your current shop.

    As to the space...I'd take the whole thing for the shop, but you can still provision the ability to move a vehicle like your tractor inside if you want or need to. The extra open space provides for more flexibility around things like assembling larger projects, etc., Consider a dedicated finishing room, too...I'd have one in a split second if I had the space for one. A nice large space like that is going to be wonderful for arranging your tools for workflow in one area and for assembly/hand-work in another. For the DC, canisters are easier to deal with. What you'll want to determine, however, is if the bag-house will flow better than the two canisters. If yes, then you have to give serious consideration to re-implementing it in the larger space. If not, stay with the canisters as they take up less room and are easier to clean. IMHO, of course. Keep the ceiling higher however you decide to handle it so you have a better sense of space and can store lumber vertical which is much more efficient. But given your winter climate and the need to heat, some form of ceiling is going to be a good idea. I suggest LED lighting with fixtures appropriate for the ceiling height...make it bright and "daylight" temperature.

    While the new shop building is completely "open", consider getting it closed cell spray foam insulated, especially in your geography. It not only provides insulation, but it also provides stiffness to the structure and a full vapor/air infiltration battier. You can then frame out as needed for formal walls where needed.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #4
    If you know any contractors in the area, you might ask to pick up a used suspended ceiling when someone is doing a remodel of a commercial building, as the ceilings and the 2x4' troffer lights usually go directly in the dumpster and to the dump. I have a used ceiling in my pole barn shop, and it works well for me. I have fiberglass batts on top. Also have about 20 troffer lights, that I converted to LED bulbs.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Waterford, PA
    Posts
    288
    My shop has OSB on the bottom of the trusses that is painted white. Since the interior height is vertically challenged, my lighting is recessed slightly into the ceiling. More than once, it has saved a bulb when I get careless moving longer stock. My ceiling is insulated with about 18" of blown in cellulose.

    For your stock storage, consider omitting the ceiling in one area, preferably near the peak, and separate it from the shop area. That will give you the height you need for your recent purchase.

  6. #6
    I have been heating my homes, garages, basements & shops with the Rinnai Direct Vent wall furnaces since '91. As Jon said, they are efficient. They are a simple install. It is a one box install. With the exception of the gas line everything is in the box. The included vent requires a 2.5" hole through the wall and will handle walls from 4.5-9.5" thick. If you look at Jim's "Out with the Old" post you can see the 5' diameter SS vent termination under the window in my post. The programmable stat is built in, simple to program and bullet proof. One very good feature of the stat is that apart from your normal program there is a low temp feature that you can set as low as 38*. If the unit is turned off but the temp drops to your low setting it will bring the unit on. They are self diagnostic, cool to the touch and very quiet. The gas valve and blower modulate thru seven stages. The 38 model Jon and I have in our shops will go from 13,500-38,000 btu. I prefer the EX-22 which will go from 8,200-21,500btu for a home, but in a shop the 38 is really nice. I always install them under a window. Windows are hard to decorate under and generally open into the space for good air circulation. The clearance of the vent termination is only 9" to a door or window. They come both natural and propane so order the one you need and do not let anyone pawn off a unit telling you to convert it. Jon suggests the wall thermostat model. The only reason I would do that is if I wanted a remote operating capability, wireless. You have to buy the kit and then select the stat of your choice. Having sold almost a qtr million of these things I have always felt a wall thermostat on a Rinnai is a solution in search of a problem. Rinnai did a good job in the adapting the unit for the wall stat, but you just boost the cost for little benefit. Your call. Maintenance is quite simple. Clean the air filters on the unit. Every job has a personality so you will see the cycle. Every couple years I will take the unit off the wall, pull the cover and blow off the pcb, gently and vacuum the chassis and clean the dual fans. They are metal squirrel cage design about 6" diameter so not hard to deal with. They mount to the wall and sit on the floor. I put mine up on a 2x8 plywood top stand to protect it from me rolling the welding machine or other into it. It stands about 13" into the room and blows the nice warm air across the floor. Your hanging heaters cost less but they are less from a comfort and technology standpoint. Rinnai's are not inexpensive but you get your money's worth. In 55 years in the heating business it is the most reliable piece of equipment I have ever seen.
    By way of disclosure, I was the Rinnai rep in the six New England States from '91-'11. I then consulted with them for 7 years and retired over a year ago. 27 years! It was a great run and they are an excellent company. I no longer have any affiliation with the company but I remain a fan. If you go this way and want to discuss the install or have any other questions I'll be happy to assist. Happy Heating!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    1,118
    Hi Terry. In my shop I have R-28 fiberglass in the walls,R50-60 blown in fiberglass in the trusses . The foundation is a four foot frost wall on footings using ICF forms. I use two overhead radiant gas fired heaters for heat. Works awesome. Also very inexpensive to heat. I had one of these heaters in my old shop with an 8' ceiling and my head would get hot at one end. I think a 10' ceiling would be fine.

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