Today's Epiphany With the Stanley 45

[Jim Koepke]

Many times back in the days when my fondness for buying Stanley 45s was strong a few were often seen on that big auction site with a slot cut in the rose wood fence. This always puzzled me as to why anyone would do that.

My pondering on this would often put me to sleep better than any pill or potion. Then when it hit me, falling asleep wasn't easy. It was the butt mortise plane that finally tilted my thinking in the right direction.

So today an attempt was made to see if my guess might have some validity.

The slot would help in the case of making a stopped rebate with the blade wider than the rebate being made.

My test was in using a #45 as a stopped rebate plane. It sort of worked. With a bit of work and maybe the addition of a thin runner to cover the skates it won't leave unwanted marks on the wood.

The plowing is started in the usual way, but as the cuts are made, the blade is advanced as needed. The depth is somewhat limited, but enough to make a good slot to mount something.

This may be another of the lost techniques from those who have done these things before us.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Jim, could you please explain a bit more? To be honest, I have not the slightest idea what you're writing about....

[george wilson]

Me too!!

[Jonas Baker]

I was literally thinking about the same thing yesterday before I saw your post. How I could use, in my case the record 044 plow plane, to make stopped dados or stopped grooves for drawer bottoms. My thought was that I could advance the blade further out from the sole of the plow plane (think a router plane or butt mortise plane) and that would maybe allow me to plane a stopped groove, much the same as if I were using a router plane. Obviosly the front of the sole of a plow plane (area in fromt of the mouth) gets in the way of doing stopped groves or rebates, etc), but advancing the blade further beyond the sole would negate this limit) I never tried it, but I might today.

Is this what you're talking about, Jim?

Jonas

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, could you please explain a bit more? To be honest, I have not the slightest idea what you're writing about....

Me too!!

Okay, looks like some of my time today will be to take some pictures. My accumulation doesn't include any planes with a slot cut into the fence.

Voila! Currently on ebay are two planes with modified rosewood fences.

Picture 6.jpg

Picture 5.jpg

Often at times when one of my #45s is used, my mind ponders the purpose of this modification. My old thinking was that maybe the user didn't understand the ability of the plane's fence to ride under the blade when cutting a rebate (rabbet).

Then it came to me, what if the person was making a stopped rebate by resetting the blade with progressive cuts while the plane's skates are still riding on the top surface. As is often the case, the blade is wider than the rebate being cut, it would require a slot cut in the fence to allow the blade to advance.

Interesting in that it can't be seen in the images above, but the second plane, (the type 10) only has the slot cut about 1/2 - 3/4". It doesn't go completely through the fence. My guess is that this craftsman knew there was a limit to how deep a cut could be made. This technique relies on a blade without support to do the work.

So, as with many things in woodworking, this isn't a new discovery, it is a discovery of what some woodworkers may have done years ago that has been lost in the annals of time.

Maybe a few more pictures are in order.

Though none of my rosewood fences will be sacrificed for this. If need be, a fence of another wood will be made.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Is this what you're talking about, Jim?

Exactly...

jtk

[Bill Houghton]

The other possibility that occurs to me is that the owner who made that modification may have wanted to use a small portion of one of the molding irons, say an ovolo, that would necessarily stick down past the fence in order for the small portion in use to cut.

[Jim Koepke]

The other possibility that occurs to me is that the owner who made that modification may have wanted to use a small portion of one of the molding irons, say an ovolo, that would necessarily stick down past the fence in order for the small portion in use to cut.

That could be a possibility. One of the limits of the #45 is if the blades are not symmetrical they tend to not work well. The blade becomes unsupported by the skate and is next to impossible to use. The #55 solves this problem by one of the skates having the ability to be adjusted up and down. It also has an adjustable "shoe" that can ride between the skates to help add some balance.

One of my uses of the #45 was to cut an ogee. A lot of moldings can be cut with a #45, it just takes changing of blades.

Leave it to Stanley to make the spacing of the support rods different on similar planes so someone couldn't turn a #45 into a #55 by purchasing a few parts.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Okay, here is an experiment done in the shop today with some pictures.

Not wanting to sacrifice a good piece of rosewood a fence was made out of pine.

After the modification to the plane's fence were made and some more discoveries made a rabbet was laid out on the edge of a piece of scrap. Using a knife to mark the end point and start point turned out to be important for at least the end point. As the depth of the rabbet increased it became necessary to increase the depth of the knifed finish line.

Here is a shot with the plane set up with the blade in the slot cut into the fence.

Blade in Fence.jpg

Next is a shot of the stopped rabbet.

Stopped Rabbet.jpg

With each pass, the blade adjustment was advanced about a half to a full turn. This was softwood, so the thick shaving at a full turn wasn't all that difficult.

This rabbet is only 2" which might be easier to cut with a chisel. This was on a piece of scrap and was done mostly by eye. This required cleaning the shaving out of the plane on almost every pass. Notice that there is a ramp at the starting end of the cut. This is due to the angle of the blade mounted in the plane. It was cleaned out easily with a chisel.

This was done by eye but would be a lot faster with stop blocks clamped to the work to set the start and stop points.

During my experiments a stopped groove was also cut. There are a few more things to do in order to get the performance to my liking. When that is done it will be posted.

If this technique is unclear ask more questions.

jtk

[Ryan Baker]

This is an interesting thread. (Thanks for posting it Jim.) I recently had to do a bunch of stopped rabbets, which I did with a router plane and chisels. Something like this might have been worth trying. It wouldn't require a 45. I could see doing this with just about any rabbet plane, as long as you can advance the cutter far enough. Lack of support for the blade might be a problem though.

[Jim Koepke]

I could see doing this with just about any rabbet plane, as long as you can advance the cutter far enough. Lack of support for the blade might be a problem though.

My cut depth wasn't measured, but it was about a quarter inch. It felt like it could go a bit more.

This could likely be done by attaching a batten to the work to guide the plane. Having a fence is nice. If one were using this method with a stopped dado, then using a batten would be the way to go.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Aha, I understand a little better now. What I don't yet understand is where the skates are running. In such a short rebate, of course they ride on top of the wood. But in a longer cut, they also ride in the groove don't they? And then they'd get in the way when making a stoped rebate?

I have no 45 to play with, but I guess it's the same with the 50.

[Jim Koepke]

Aha, I understand a little better now. What I don't yet understand is where the skates are running. In such a short rebate, of course they ride on top of the wood. But in a longer cut, they also ride in the groove don't they? And then they'd get in the way when making a stoped rebate?

I have no 45 to play with, but I guess it's the same with the 50.

Thanks for bringing that up Kees.

The excitement of finding a reason for something that has been nagging me for years blinded me to the reality of the situation you bring up.

Now it looks like the technique gets down to using this for the ends of a stopped rabbet and using the plane set up in the traditional manner for the rest of the rabbet.

My #50 doesn't have any wood on the fence. Maybe some can be added like was done with my Record 778.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Yes, first the stopped part, and then doing the rest of the rabbet (or groove) should work, when the rabbet is long enough.

Or maybe it was because of the reason Bill mentioned?

I did indeed add the wooden fence to my #50. I don't remember if it came with threaded holes allready or if I made them myself.

[Jim Koepke]

Aha, I understand a little better now. What I don't yet understand is where the skates are running. In such a short rebate, of course they ride on top of the wood. But in a longer cut, they also ride in the groove don't they? And then they'd get in the way when making a stoped rebate?

I have no 45 to play with, but I guess it's the same with the 50.

And a later comment:

I did indeed add the wooden fence to my #50. I don't remember if it came with threaded holes allready or if I made them myself.

Kees,

This has been figured out. Set the depth stops to a little below the skates. Yes, it happened and there are pictures to prove it!

Setting Stops.jpg

Notice that there is a shim (~0.030" shown) under the skates in this picture while the depth stops are being set.

There is also a picture of a custom depth stop to help prevent unwanted marking of the wood.

Wooden Sole Stop.jpg

Using this and the auxiliary depth stop on the inside fence make it easy to do stopped grooves or beads.

Another anomaly came up with the Stanley 45 that will be added to an old thread in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs sticky folder. Maybe some pictures would help to better convey the problem.

As to the addition of a wooden fence to the #50, my bet is that you or a former owner did the threaded holes in the metal fence. Most of the factory holes in my metal fences were counter sunk for using wood screws. In the later days, Stanley dropped the counter sinking and switched to round head screws. Of course my thinking can be way off on this, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. At least until someone shows me wrong.

To be continued...

jtk