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Thread: perfect rail and stile joint

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Griswold Connecticut
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    6,523
    Peter

    Yeah, the Delta is a bit of a pain to get set. I finally gave up and took the top off the base ,and set it up so I could get at it easier. Reaching through that door, on my hands and knees was starting to really bug me.
    I wonder if you were fighting the spindle clearance dimension tolerance.
    I have three delta spindles. Two 3/4", and one 1/2", each of them will give me something different. Nowhere near the 3/32nds Andy is getting.My god that's .090"!! I was fighting maybe .020-.025.
    To make a long story short.,I got a chance to buy an OEM, 1",solid spindle cartridge for $50.00. I drove across CT rather quickly to get it! What a difference! Now I am maybe .0003 out.
    Now I have a bunch of 3/4" cutters that I probably will never use again.
    Last edited by Mike Cutler; 09-28-2019 at 1:23 PM.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
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    5,362
    For those of you who do a lot of painted doors, how big of a problem is the paint crack? I only build for myself but none of my passage doors have shown a crack at the joints and only one drawer out of about 40 drawers and cabinet doors has the crack and so hard to see I had not noticed it. My cabinet doors are 1+" with a 5/8" tongue if that makes any difference. The doors are maple which isn't all that stable and the finish is conversion varnish. Dave

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
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    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Hi Andy, I only make Shaker style doors.

    I use an adjustable Grover for the groove and a larger adjustable Grover with the cutters flipped over with a spacer inside to cut both cheeks of the tenon in one pass.

    Itís also important that your spindle is at right angles to the table. You can check with the shaper locked out by gently clamping a straight edge between spindle spacers, rotate the spindle by hand and measure the gap to the table.

    Regards, Rod.
    Easier to mount an magnetic indicator holder on the side of the spindle and just position the indicator to read the table.

    Better still; an Indicol which clamps onto the spindle and holds a test indicator http://www.penntoolco.com/indicol-un...frame-ind-138/
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Beantown
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    2,809
    I do a fair amount, but I donít always get to inspect them after several years which is when you would have better ďevidenceĒ. On occasions when I have gone back theyíve still looked good. My own kitchen cabs are about 16 or so years old and not a single line yet. So for me luckily itís not an issue.

    JeffD

  5. #20
    You need to first check to see if your table is 90 degrees to your spindle. Adjust by either shimming the table on the bottom side or if you have to and are feeling brave shim the spindle cartridge. Then check your run out on the spindle itself. Have no idea how you would adjust for run out other than it being caused by a bad bearing that you can replace or send it to someone to rebuild.

    As far as your cutters, MLCS is not exactly a premier cutter source. I have used them but was disappointed when they quickly became dual and replaced them with better cutters. I also tried Infinity but they didnít seam to have great quality either.

    For crazed cutters Freeborn is the best, imho. I would consider getting a universal insert head that can run multiple profiles of cope and stick cutters. I personally use mostly Freeborn brazed cutters but one day may make the leap to insert heads. From the research that I have done it might not be possible to get a shaker style insert head that can run other door profiles. The companies that I looked at, briefly, had a different model head specifically for shaker cope and stick profiles with the inside bevel profile. I could be wrong about this so anyone is welcome to comment a link to a multiple profile head that can run various cope and stick cutters including shaker style with the inside bevel profile.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    1,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Coker View Post
    anyone is welcome to comment a link to a multiple profile head that can run various cope and stick cutters including shaker style with the inside bevel profile.
    https://glct.com/sg.html

    Not inexpensive, but I have a pair of these heads that I use for custom profiles, including the high angle bevel shaker style. Once you have the heads, custom profiles can be made from wood samples or drawings in a 1-2 week window. Great Lakes makes tooling for Unique Machine, who make dedicated cabinet door equipment. The heads run smoothly and GLCT makes the profiles to match the common minor diameter of my other tooling, which means I can drop these heads in with no adjustments.
    JR

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R. Rutter View Post
    https://glct.com/sg.html

    Not inexpensive, but I have a pair of these heads that I use for custom profiles, including the high angle bevel shaker style. Once you have the heads, custom profiles can be made from wood samples or drawings in a 1-2 week window. Great Lakes makes tooling for Unique Machine, who make dedicated cabinet door equipment. The heads run smoothly and GLCT makes the profiles to match the common minor diameter of my other tooling, which means I can drop these heads in with no adjustments.
    That's an interesting way to go about it with replaceable backers so your profile options are less limited, I've seem similar approaches elsewhere. What's the initial outlay and what do new custom profiles cost? That head wouldn't be MAN rated but I know not everyone is concerned about that.
    Last edited by brent stanley; 10-01-2019 at 11:49 AM.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    1,863
    Quote Originally Posted by brent stanley View Post
    That's an interesting way to go about it with replaceable backers so your profile options are less limited, I've seem similar approaches elsewhere. What's the initial outlay and what do new custom profiles cost? That head wouldn't be MAN rated but I know not everyone is concerned about that.
    The heads were just under $900 ea in 2013. A set of backers and knives is $240 per head. The quality and service is flawless. I was able to bill part of these to a large custom job, and charge at least something for custom inserts as new jobs require (how much depends on the scope of the job).

    My other tooling was made by a company who ended up selling to Misenheimer a few years back. I had common profiles, like basic shaker done as dedicated heads with no backers, and the other heads are universal with steel backing plates. These heads use gibs and the backers are not fixed with screws, but held with the gib pressure along with the inserts. This makes setup more fiddly, but they work well once dialed in. Misenheimer still provides backers and knives as needed, but I think they now outsource the heads, universal or dedicated profile. I don't see the style heads that I have on their web site now...

    http://misenheimerinc.com/products.html
    Last edited by J.R. Rutter; 10-01-2019 at 1:14 PM.
    JR

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R. Rutter View Post
    The heads were just under $900 ea in 2013. A set of backers and knives is $240 per head. The quality and service is flawless. I was able to bill part of these to a large custom job, and charge at least something for custom inserts as new jobs require (how much depends on the scope of the job).

    My other tooling was made by a company who ended up selling to Misenheimer a few years back. I had common profiles, like basic shaker done as dedicated heads with no backers, and the other heads are universal with steel backing plates. These heads use gibs and the backers are not fixed with screws, but held with the gib pressure along with the inserts. This makes setup more fiddly, but they work well once dialed in. Misenheimer still provides backers and knives as needed, but I think they now outsource the heads, universal or dedicated profile. I don't see the style heads that I have on their web site now...

    http://misenheimerinc.com/products.html
    Thanks JR, very interesting.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    I live in NH
    Posts
    88
    Sorry for the delay in getting back to the thread. Tools going out like that mess me up bad as i am a one man shop. I shimmed the spindle off of the 3 large bolts holding the WHOLE MOTOR AND SPINDLE HOUSING!! wow thts a lot of weight on those 3 bolts. I did as suggested and shimmed the side that needed it and though i did not get perfect its 80 percent better and well within good enough for now !! I learned so much on this adventure thanks team!

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