Diamond sharpening stone

[Will Blick]

Another bit of info for future newbs trying to select a sharpening system....
While I love waterstones, my biggest gripe with them is...
keeping them FLAT...
Even after doing a single plane blade, I mark the stone with pencil marks all over..this is mandatory, as u often think u got a stone flat, but you are way off...eyes dont work here.
I spend more time lapping the stone back to flat, than I do with sharpening the blade.
So when I go through 3 or maybe 4 grits of stones, I spend most of my time flattening the stones. This is the value of the granite or MDF under the sandpaper, NO wasted time Flattening.

The stones I use for flattening, they go out of flat too, except the diamond stones, as they have a hard base, but the stones wear out the diamond much faster than sharpening metal on them. The current one I am using is 400grit Atoma diamond, with metal back... it would be perfect, IF, it it was longer!! A shorter flattening stone vs. your sharpening stone, is not ideal. Also, the flattening stone must be of a grit that is compatible with the stone u are flattening. I use the 400grit Atoma for stones up to 1000 grit. Finer stones, I use the Shapton diamond falltening plate, which should ONLY be used on stones 1000g and up, or it will wear really FAST. If you use a coarse flattening stone, on a fine water stones, the scratch marks in the sharpening stone defeat the benefits of the finer grit stone. Another mistake I learned the hard way.

The granite block with sandpaper could work well for flattening stones , but my shapton stones are only a 1/4" thick, so you sand your fingertips a lot. So then I have to put the stone in a jig. More steps, change sandpaper, clean grainte block, etc.

BTW, for plane blades, I think having a good jig really helps. The goal is to keep the edge square to the roller. Then u stay on the micro bevel, which reduces time on the stone, thereby making the sharpening stone less unflat, so flattening it takes less time. Keeping blade very square is not always so easy. I often struggle to keep the blade square in my LV jig, despite it having a squaring system. You have to pay attention to your edges so u get feedback. Some of the low cost jigs I bought on ebay do a good job, as their jaws are long providing a longer registration area for squareness. But at only $15, I get some dogs too.

I just got the new Woodpecker sharpening jig system, I look forward to trying that jig soon. It has some unique features that I think will be helpful, but I have been wrong before

[Warren Mickley]

The traditional method is to use a water stone for coarse sharpening and then oil stones for polishing. Diamond stones, Shapton stones, and other harsh stones are poor choices for use before oil stones because they make deep scratches that take longer to polish out.

I doubt that whoever wrote this ever wore out an Arkansas stone; my black Arkansas has lost less than .001 inches in 43 years. My soft Arkansas has lost about .004 inches. At this rate it ought to last millennia.

Andrew wrote:

Arkansas Stones Pros:
Arkansas stones are polishing stones. A basic Hard Arkansas is still one of the best polishing stones available. They are inexpensive and very long lasting. Very fine grit Arkansas stones like the black or translucent will polish blade bevels far beyond factory sharp

Arkansas Stone Cons:
Arkansas stones are not intended for rapid stock removal but, for polishing and refining an edge to surgically sharp. If you were to take a very dull blade and try to sharpen it using only an Arkansas stone you would spend hours trying to get the blade sharp but would likely only succeed in polishing the dull edge. You need to finish "grinding" or “profiling” the edge first with something more aggressive like a diamond stone or coarse ceramic

[Will Blick]

Warren, I am curious about your statement...
I use water stones the entire way up, right up to my Shapton 30K stone, which makes a near perfect mirror, shaves my arm hair perfect....
Why would oil stones be preferred for fine sharpening vs. water stones??

[Warren Mickley]

Warren, I am curious about your statement...
I use water stones the entire way up, right up to my Shapton 30K stone, which makes a near perfect mirror, shaves my arm hair perfect....
Why would oil stones be preferred for fine sharpening vs. water stones??

Arkansas stones sort of catch on the roughness of the tool bevel, smoothing the edge. When the edge is polished the action of an Arkansas stone slows down. So we usually sharpen with a coarser cutting stone, and polish with oil stones. Harsh stones, however, leave deep scratches that do not polish out easily.

I have seen very fine results from some Japanese water stones, but Shaptons not so much. Keep in mind that an experienced workman can enhance his results with technique. I don't recommend you go out and buy a new set of stones, but do keep your eyes open.

[Will Blick]

Your comments made me wonder... heck, its been 13 years since I researched all this in detail to select the different sharpening methods.
Hey, dont think I wouldn't buy some Arkansas stones, if I felt it would help... sharpness is such a crazy obsession that is hard to understand!

I did google this extensively and read through a LOT of comparison threads... and it seems, while there is still a small loyal following of the Arkansas stones (they have been around forever vs. modern man made stones), most who converted to whet stones, never looked back. The reasons were numerous, too many to mention here. The other concensus was, the Arkansas are much harder to master, and cut very very slow, which is prob. why the whet stones are becoming more popular. My ceramics cut VERY fast. There is some that mention Ark stones can produce a more durable edge, but this is prob. just an opinion, no side by side comparisons to really bear out such positions. For example, I have found that sharpening to 30k (vs. 15K) on the ceramics will give you an edge that slices through any wood, like a hot knife through butter, BUT, that surgical sharpness lasts a few strokes with a hand plane, and comes back down to a 12-15K grit like sharpness, which that edge holds much longer. So durability often comes down to how fine the edge was to begin with...the finer the edge, the faster the wood will break it down. OF course, the wood hardness is a factor as well.

Also, I recall some of the pros at ww shows, telling me years ago, the type of metal u are sharpening is very important in stone selection. For A2, the Shapton ceramics are ideal, as they were designed to sharpen that speicific metal. They were not designed for O1 blades. Of course, they would still work, but not as well. My experience has been, they do melt the A2 surprisingly fast, the swarf comes so fast, maybe 5-10 swipes max is all that is ever required per grit.

Anyway, not looking to start a Ark vs. whetstone war, just sharing what I dug up in a nutshell, as these posts live on long after they run their course and many newbs will be reading them as they too are confronted with the same dilemnas.

Also... pmv11, also needs to be paired with the right stones. From reading up on this, it seems the consensus is the Bester/Imanishi stones work best. IF someone is just starting out, its best to buy all the same metal types for all your blades, to reduce you expense and storage of stones! I have a handful of PMV11, and am considering more...they do hold an edge longer, but hard to buying more stones!